Drone that hunts and takes down other drones in development

[wasabi]

Can drones be downed by Air rifles?

Paintball gun would be a better bet. Hypothetically of course.

[Big Adam]

I need a drone to hunt down the cats that mess in my garden.

[crossy]

I need a drone to hunt down the cats that mess in my garden.

Nip down to Toy butt* and get one of those long range water guns - I ain't found a cat yet that'll stick around when hit with a blast of cold water. I haven't found those "cat repellent" concoctions to be even remotely effective - but strangely enough Jeyes Fluid seems to work very well, (but just be careful splashing it on your plant's as it's likely to kill 'em)

(* Toy's R Us - say it fast <grin>)

By the way, if anyone suggests getting a cat of your own, "to protect it's territory", then take my advice ... hit them HARD and repeatedly until they shut up or go away. It's a really, really stupid idea - akin to suggesting putting on a sweater to keep out the cold if you've fallen out of a plane without a parachute.

Drone related thing - I went shopping twice at the weekend and these "mens gadget" shops seem to be getting rid of their RTF drones at good discounts. Heck, I even spotted Susan Boyle in front of one of the shops doing a selfie for a fan, (not drone related, but I thought I'd better mention it to make my weekend sound more interesting!).

By the way, am I correct in thinking that the only difference between a "drone" and a normal radio controlled model is that the former must have some degree of autonomy? Just that some of these things advertised as "drones" seem to need manual control all the time. In which case, I'm calling marketing BS.

[peterb]

Drone is just a slang term used by the media from anything from a Reaper or Predator down to a Phantom 2. And I suspect it is used because it has slightly sinister Sc-Fi connotations, as well as a term coined from the use of the larger systems used for military operations - and the media aren't known for playing down sensationalism!

But in effect they are all radio controlled aircraft. It also depends on what you mean by autonomy. Many can be programmed to fly automatically through a set of waypoints, burt once set, they can't make decisions for themselves. You could add sensors to allow them to take collision avoiding action, although on a small aircraft (<20Kg) the weight penalty might be prohibitive. At best they are operating semi-autonomously.

But fixed wing, rotary wing or multi-rotor, they are radio controlled aircraft.

[jigger]

I've been looking some quadcopters and even the toy ones seem to have got to a very high standard nowadays.

[Flibb]

Hubsan X4 is a good starter for learning to control a quadcopter. Flying nose towards you is the hard part, the X4 helped me limit the number of crashes with the F450. Picked my one up for about £35.

[Zak33]

/walks out...

[peterb]

Hubsan X4 is a good starter for learning to control a quadcopter. Flying nose towards you is the hard part, the X4 helped me limit the number of crashes with the F450. Picked my one up for about £35.

Yes, I borrowed a friends 'toy' miniature quad copter. Unstabilised somit was interesting at first, but after an hour or two I could hover it over a 1m square for about 2 minutes! Trouble was it was so light I could fly it at any altitude outside in case it blew away!

I haven't flown the 550 in manual mode at all. When I do, the camera and gimbal will be coming off first!

[crossy]

Yes, I borrowed a friends 'toy' miniature quad copter. Unstabilised somit was interesting at first, but after an hour or two I could hover it over a 1m square for about 2 minutes! Trouble was it was so light I could fly it at any altitude outside in case it blew away!

I haven't flown the 550 in manual mode at all. When I do, the camera and gimbal will be coming off first!

Are these quad-copters any easier to fly than a "proper" RC helicopter? I used to be pretty keen on the radio-controlled models (cars mainly) and really fancied getting into 'copters but the price put me off. And then the first kid arrived and that was the end of that, (although maybe she'll be off to uni soon....).

I'll now have to retrain myself to stop calling these things "drones" though...

[peterb]

I haven't flown an RC helicopter, but modern miniaturised control systems have made them easier to fly, employing th same stabilisation techniques as 'full size' helicopters. But purists who want to do aerobatics fly in manual mode which requires some practice!

Multitotors all have some form of rudimentary mix which translates the control input to control the 4/6/8 motors to give directional control. As complexity increases, that includes accelerometers or inclinometers to provide a stabilising function so that with hands off, the aircraft is stable in attitude. Add GPS and a barometric sensor and you get something that is positionally stable too, so with the control inputs in a neutral position, it will just sit and hover. Those flight systems tend to be more expensive, and purists or this flying acrobatically (3D) in modern parlance!) don't use them.

I have seen videos of quadcopter looping and doing various stunts, all in manual mode, but a multi rotor has the aerodynamic capabilities of a house brick. If the motors fail, it falls, no glide, no auto-rotate, just gravity.

Hopwever, IO have seen one which, after being waterproofs, will land and take off on water, and will 'fly' underwater too!

(Im just wondering if parts of this thread should be moved to GD...)

[Saracen]

Are these quad-copters any easier to fly than a "proper" RC helicopter? I used to be pretty keen on the radio-controlled models (cars mainly) and really fancied getting into 'copters but the price put me off. And then the first kid arrived and that was the end of that, (although maybe she'll be off to uni soon....).

I'll now have to retrain myself to stop calling these things "drones" though...

If you're talking about the likes of the Hubsan, then, the simple answer is .... hell, yes, they're easier than a helicopter.

The less simple answer is that it somewhat depends on which helicopter, or rather, type of helicopter, and quite what you mean by "fly".

On the first point, the "type" of helicopter, there are broadly three categories - co-axial, fixed pitch and collective pitch.

Bear in mind, helicopters are inherently pretty unstable, and keeping them even hovering is a constant flow of micro-corrections to the controls. If you picture trying to keep a marble balanced and static on a sheet of glass, you'll come close to what's involved.

A 'co-axial' type has two sets of rotors, rotating in opposite directions, and that removes a massive amount of instability. These, your average four year old could probably 'fly', because they largely fly themselves. On the other hand, you're rather limited in what you can do with them.

Next in complexity is fixed pitch. The angle of the blades is, ummmm .... fixed. So, the faster the motor spins them, the more 'lift' it generates, and the heli goes up. Slow the motor, heli comes down.

Simple, innit? Well, not quite that simple, no.

Firstly, as the motor spins one way, the torque tries to totate the body of the heli in the opposite direction, which is not good for 'flying', but is good for spinning out of control. So ... you have a tail rotor that provides some horizontal thrust to counter that torque spin. Only, getting it to EXACTLY balance it, not too much but also not too little, isn't easy. And remember I said, spin the motor faster, heli goes up? Well, so does the torque, so the tail motor has to adjust speed too, or as soon as you change main rotor speed, the body would start to spin.

Then, simply getting the heli up, and stable, takes practice, because the 'rotor wash' does weird things to stability when you first lift off. As a rough guide, until you're two or three times the diameter of the rotor blades up, you get quite a lot of the back-pressure effect. So, best bet, at least until countering it becomes intuitive, is to get up several feet (depending on heli size) pretty quickly.

But .... until you get the 'feel', all those constant micro-corrections come at you at light speed, and you can't think your way through them, you have to react, not consider and decide. And THAT takes practice.

Then, you get "collective pitch" helI's. With these (and it's a bit of a simplification) you spin the blades up to a working speed, but alter the pitch when you want lift. A little negative pitch holds the heli down, then change the pitch of the blades to increase lift, with rotor speed remaining more of less constant. This is kind-of akin to balancing that marble on glass .... while riding a bike.

And that's just to hover. So, what do you mean by 'fly'?

If you can hover, then going forwards, backwards, left, right, up and down is relatively simple .... provided the heli is "tail in", that is, the nose of the heli is pointing away from you. While that's true, then nudge the right hand controller right ('aileron') and the heli goes right. Nudge it left, heli goes left. Nudge it forward, heli goes away ftom you, etc.

But if the heli is "tail out", I.e. nose facing you, that all gets reversed. So you want it to go right (your right) it's the helI's left, so nudge left. And that is VERY counter-intuitive.

So, remember I said you had a constant stream of micro adjustments? Well, you do, but if the nose is facing you, you have a constant stream of micro-adjustments, all if which are counter-intuitive.

Now imaging flying the heli in a circle? As you do so, the angle of adjustment isn't just reversed, but variable, constantly changing. You have to concentrate on 'seeing' the nose of the heli, as if you were in it.

It's rather like riding a bike, or driving a car - initially, everything, from how much brake pressure to apply to how much to turn the wheel is a conscious decision, but after a while, that becomes subconscious control and muscle memory, leaving you to watch road signs, other drivers, chat to passengers or sing karaoke to the radio.

Well, similarly flying by the nose. But, you want to fly that circle? So, a little aileron to bank, but you start to slide down, so a little rudder (tail rotor) to compensate. But maybe you slow down, so a little throttle / blade pitch to lift, too.

So, is flying simple lines, hovering and doing a circle "flying" a heli? Well, yeah, and no easy task either, when you begin. But there's so much more, right up to full "3D" acrobatics and stunt flying .... like upside-down.

Quads have SOME of the same challenges - but are inherently MUCH more stable, and hence easier to fly initially.

That said, a friend taught his son to fly full collective pitch heli at age about 5, and he managed just fine. So even a 5-year old can do it.

If you're thinking of getting into helI's, there's a few usefu tips.

First, buy a brand and model where you KNOW parts are available, and preferably, locally. You WILL need parts, sooner or later. I'd suggest Blade models are a good start, very widely available.

Secondly, where will you fly? Indoors or outdoors? Either way, you need a decent amount of space, especially when starting. And if indoor, local school gymnasium, ir your lounge at home?

Flying the bigger models at home just isn't practical. By 'bigger' I mean, say, 450 class, with a rotor diameter of a couple of feet. It'd be dangerous, too. But you can get 'micro', or even 'nano' models that are ideal for indoor flight. But .... they're too light for ideal outdoor use except in very calm conditions. A Blade NanoCPX, for instance, is a tiny but yet full collective pitch heli, a few inches long and weighing about 30g. It's about 8" long, with a similar blade diameter for main rotors.

Something like that is a 'proper' model heli, yet is SO light that it'll withstand crashes that'd wreck lots of bits (blades, linkages, etc) on a proper outside-size heli, so requires MUCH less buying of parts, and they're far cheaper when you do buy them.

If you do decide to go for a larger, outdoor model I'd strongly suggest getting lessons from an experienced pilot. You may get help from a heli club, or can pay for lessons, perhaps from the shop where you bought the model. With bigger models, it'll probably be cheaper than the repair bills if you don't

Costs?

A basic, borderline toy co-axial, maybe £30 for the toys. More for decent models. Blade mSRx (micro size, fixed pitch, no flybar) is, say, £60-80 if you buy BNF and supply your own compatible radio, or maybe £30 more for RTF with radio included. Blade NanoCPx, about £100-130 depending on whether radio's included or not, for a micro-sized collective pitch 'proper' heli.

Outdoor size? Well, 450 size is probably £200 and up, without radio.

[MercutioUK]

If you own property, I'm not sure at which altitude it stops being yours, but if for whatever reason a drone strays into your airspace I suppose if you were feeling particularly bitter you could bring the tango down. Or you could hunt Amazon drones, when they become a reality, assuming Interstellar style drone hunting isn't a possibility

The amazon drones use a pretty weak transmitter (apparently) I was considering a little drone piracy once they start deliveries

[TheAnimus]

You a PPL-H Saracen?

I mention only because your description of how helicopters fly is very wrong, all fixed-wing pilots know full well that helicopters fly because they are just so gosh damned ugly that the ground pushes them away!

[Saracen]

....

I mention only because your description of how helicopters fly is very wrong, all fixed-wing pilots know full well that helicopters fly because they are just so gosh damned ugly that the ground pushes them away!

But people that fly a plank would say that.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, TA. In the eye of ....

You a PPL-H Saracen?

Nah. My first reaction to your question was "I wish", but immediately followed by, well, actually, I don't wish. I do like the idea . But, given the cost (what, £20k and up, as a practical minimum) I then ask myself what I'd do with it once I got it. The answer is, of course, fly a heli. But where do I get one? Buy it? Well, if I win the solo jackpot on a multi-rollover Euromillions lottery, maybe, but short of that there's the small problem of money to buy one. So, hire one? Expensive, and to do what? Buzz around locally for fun? So, £20k+ up-front, then hourly rates? If I needed to get somewhere by heli that badly, I'd rather charter one. But truth is, I don't need to go anywhere by heli.

To my mind, PPL-H is great if either you need it for a career, or have the money to learn, and buy/run a heli as a hobby. Really, I have neither .... nor the actual use for one, if I had the money.

Finally, if I had the money to buy and run a heli, I'd want a better pilot than me flying it, if my ass is sat in it.

No, I fly models. It's a lot cheaper (though not necessarily cheap, depending on the model) and at least I'll survive me crashing it, even if the model might not be so lucky.

[Gerrard]

Nah. My first reaction to your question was "I wish", but immediately followed by, well, actually, I don't wish. I do like the idea . But, given the cost (what, £20k and up, as a practical minimum) I then ask myself what I'd do with it once I got it. The answer is, of course, fly a heli. But where do I get one? Buy it? Well, if I win the solo jackpot on a multi-rollover Euromillions lottery, maybe, but short of that there's the small problem of money to buy one. So, hire one? Expensive, and to do what? Buzz around locally for fun? So, £20k+ up-front, then hourly rates? If I needed to get somewhere by heli that badly, I'd rather charter one. But truth is, I don't need to go anywhere by heli.

To my mind, PPL-H is great if either you need it for a career, or have the money to learn, and buy/run a heli as a hobby. Really, I have neither .... nor the actual use for one, if I had the money.

I feel the exact same way about just getting a normal PPL. The costs may be lower than for a helicopter, but it's still a large amount for something I don't see myself using too much.

And flying a RC helicopter is easy; you can even cut the grass with it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrmd_Qdryos

[Saracen]

I feel the exact same way about just getting a normal PPL. The costs may be lower than for a helicopter, but it's still a large amount for something I don't see myself using too much.

And flying a RC helicopter is easy; you can even cut the grass with it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrmd_Qdryos

As some wag once said, to an inverted flyer, down is up, and up is expensive.