QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

[adidan]

TBH I wouldn't expect most humans to make a good decision there.

Yeah, that's my problem, I tend to be over optimistic when it comes to people and commonsense.

[Saracen]

I'm happy for the Police to have them, but not Mrs Miggins out for her Sunday bimble...


....

That reminds me of something I saw about 40 years ago.

This old boy, must've been 80 at least, tottered along the pavement with two walking sticks. I watched, wondering if he needed help getting to his car, but he didn't. He got in, eventually and after serious effort, rummaged around a bit, blipped the throttle a couple of tiimes, then floored it and roared off up the road at about Warp 3. In a V12 E-Type Jag.

The way he handled that car made me wonder if it was Stirling Moss' grandad.

[Saracen]

That's a fair point although I'm not sure it will cause good drivers to become bad or bad drivers to become good. It may enable good drivers to avoid bad drivers more often.

That may be wishful thinking though.

In the hands of a good driver, extra mid-range over-taking power makes the manouvre safer because, provided the chance is adequate, you can be out, past and back on your sjde of the road quicker, minimising the dangerous period on the wrong side of the road. After 20 years of M-class BMWs, that is my experience. It also appears to be your point.

But, in the hands of a bad driver, or idiot, the fact that you can accelerate that much quicker means the idiot will attempt to overtake in a much smaller gap thinking that the extra power means he can make it, which he might .... or might not. In a less powerful car, he would kbow he can't, so wouldn't try. Which is Ttaskmaster's point.

My view is that the idiot will try it on in a barely adequate gap, whatever he drives, but in a slower car, "barely adequate" will be a bigger gap, but still only just viable.

For a driver that isn't taking silly chances because he has extra power, the extra power makes him safer. E.g. I can get past in 15 sec in a slower car, and overtake in a 30 second gap. If, now, I have a fast car I can be past in 8 seconds, the margingoes from 15 sec to 22 sec, and the dangerous bit where I'm on the wrong side of the road reduces from 15 sec to nearly half that. Every extra second spent overtaking is extra risk, and in general, reducing the time spent in an inherently risky manouvre reduces risk.

But, like wood-working with power tools, a fast car means someone not up to handling it can simply get into trouble much quicker.

[Ttaskmaster]

I guess the only way to avoid that is to have fully automated vehicles but then we're left with machines deciding who lives and who dies when there's a no win situation of a collision.

But there should* also be a massive reduction in those situations to begin with - Cars will all be 'on-rails' and communicating with each other to avoid routing conflicts.
Motorcycles will likely be banned due to safety concerns.
Bicycles and pedestrians will not only have their own lanes but probably end up having more protective features.
Horses may end up being safer, too.


*Caveat - Should. If Microsoft or Apple get the software contract, all bets are off!!

Driving a 45bhp car that struggles to get to 70mph is not as much fun as driving a car like yours that can easily get to 70mph.

Why?
Because they're trying to keep up with increasingly faster cars?
Some power is fine, but there comes a point where there is too much power.

For example, my stupidly fast bike - The 130bhp is offset by the massive weight, a great deal, while a lower-powered bike like weighing only half (like a Fireblade, or even a Hornet ) ends up being an absolutely mental bike and something I'd never touch.
I can relax and ride mine as sedately as I need after a long, tiring week at work, while the 'Blade would be like riding a knife-edge every single moment of that same trip!!

If you double the power again to get a car that really easily gets to 70mph then you get a really relaxed driving experience.

I have 130bhp on my bike and hitting 75 in less than 4 seconds is anything but a relaxing experience!!!
I have the same 130bhp in my car, according to the factory specs. It's likely less now, of course, but it still drives well... and yet, you darn-well feel it and the quoted 9.4 seconds for 0-60 really doesn't feel like it!!

Slapping the average driver used to driving cars like mine into something with 602bhp where their acceleration is a quarter of the time - You're not worried by this?

How easily do you want your car to get to 70mph?

Oh, I'm sure everyone wants to get there as quick as possible and I'm sure everyone on this forum is an absolute GOD of driving fast, powerful vehicles.... My question in response is - How much do you trust other drivers around you?

How much do you want to just not notice steep hills when pootling around the likes of Wales?

This car, the old Merc, and even the old 1.4 Corsa all handled Hardknott, Porlock Hill and numerous Highland roads without any difficulty...
But acceleration and outright torque are different. I've driven tanks that would conquer gradients that would have super-fast Sportsbikes flipping over and throwing hissy-fits!

It is just nicer and more relaxing to drive. I suspect your bike would not be as nice to drive long distance if you swapped the engine for a 125cc, and it wouldn't be the top speed you missed.

If you just swapped the engine, no. But a 125cc bike as designed wouldn't be desperately bad and I've toured Cornwall on them a couple of times, including the trips there and back, with plenty of overtaking slower vehicles, riding the twisties, mild hooning and so on. The 125 Suzuki VanVan has been the choice for several bloggers touring all over Europe.
Before this one I had a big, heavy 650cc Cruiser with only 40bhp, power:weight of 0.17 and a 0-60 of 7 seconds. That saw me through a great many adventures!

[Ttaskmaster]

The way he handled that car made me wonder if it was Stirling Moss' grandad.

You do get folks like that... but you also get a lot of the '710' folks who can't even handle a 90bhp Golf safely.

After 20 years of M-class BMWs, that is my experience.

Perhaps you can explain something to me - Just what IS it about BMWs that turns even good drivers into complete [Censored]s the instant they get behind the wheel of one o' these Bavarian monstrosities?
I found it happens to me too, whenever I have to drive a customer's Beemah. It's only BMWs though and it's almost as if it isn't meant to be driven sensibly...!!

But, like wood-working with power tools, a fast car means someone not up to handling it can simply get into trouble much quicker.

My main worry is in town-traffic, where a quick blip on my throttle will have you doing 10-15, while a Tesla could easily be 30-45. I already see people trash performance vehicles doing this very thing.

[Saracen]

You do get folks like that... but you also get a lot of the '710' folks who can't even handle a 90bhp Golf safely.


Perhaps you can explain something to me - Just what IS it about BMWs that turns even good drivers into complete [Censored]s the instant they get behind the wheel of one o' these Bavarian monstrosities?
I found it happens to me too, whenever I have to drive a customer's Beemah. It's only BMWs though and it's almost as if it isn't meant to be driven sensibly...!!


My main worry is in town-traffic, where a quick blip on my throttle will have you doing 10-15, while a Tesla could easily be 30-45. I already see people trash performance vehicles doing this very thing.

On the latter point, he blipped the throttle with it out of gear (or not in drive).

As for BMW drivers, I think it's a false caricature. Sure, you get BMWs driven idiotically, but you get other performance cars driven that way too. Perhaps the symptoms you describe are because, for people not used to performance cars (and I'm talking about the quick ones here, not junior rep-mobiles) they are a driver's car, with a positive feel and generally good road-holding.

Personally, I don't drive like a nut .... often. I see no need, am not interested in showing off and don't feel I have anything to prove. I have no interest, and I mean NO interest in road-racing, or screaming away from lights. One of the reasons I like M-cars is because you can just pootle about, and most people wouldn't take the car as anything special, unless they already know about M's (and most non-car people don't) or they look carefully. Or listen. So I can use it to pop down the supermarket, etc, and almost nobody pays any attention. But .... when you want power, like overtaking, you have it in bucketloads, and if you drop a gear and punch it, THEN people might notice the exhaust sound.

Maybe I'm an exception, and sure, some BMW drivers seem to think they own the roads but I've noticed that from performance Merc's Audi's, etc too. But the worst, IMHO, by a large margin are the youngsters with hot hatches, followed closely by kids with bog-standard hatches and a loud exhaust pretending, even if only to themselves, that think they have a hot hatch.

[peterb]

But the worst, IMHO, by a large margin are the youngsters with hot hatches, followed closely by kids with bog-standard hatches and a loud exhaust pretending, even if only to themselves, that they have a hot hatch.

And that age range - 17-25 year old males are the ones most likely to have an accident - of of those the 17-21 male is a considerably higher risk, partly through lack of experience, and partly because research has indicated that young males are unable to assess types of risk.

One articles here

http://www.bakerssolicitors.com/News...ard-facts.html

And an abstract of some research here

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...22437599000183

And one highlighting gender differences - young males are around 3 times more likely to have an accident than females.

http://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/20...h25_Gender.pdf

[Ttaskmaster]

Sure, you get BMWs driven idiotically, but you get other performance cars driven that way too. Perhaps the symptoms you describe are because, for people not used to performance cars (and I'm talking about the quick ones here, not junior rep-mobiles) they are a driver's car, with a positive feel and generally good road-hokding.

The BMWs I was thinking of have anything but 'feel'. They were just so disconnected, in every way imaginable. It felt more like playing a computer game than driving a car. I know a few mid-range bikes that are a bit 'overeager', but no car that is so powerful and at the same time so soulless.

But the worst, IMHO, by a large margin are the youngsters with hot hatches, followed closely by kids with bog-standard hatches and a loud exhaust pretending, even if only to themselves, that they have a hot hatch.

I find they only come out to play at certain times, wheeras the BMW and Vauxhall drivers (the latter seemingly far worse than Audis) can be anywhere at any time.

[3dcandy]

Remember most people learn in a front wheel drive car, then get in a BM wubbleyooo and it's got 5 times the power AND is rear wheel drive...
IF you've never been brought up on rear wheel drive cars it's a totally different feeling

[Ttaskmaster]

Remember most people learn in a front wheel drive car, then get in a BM wubbleyooo and it's got 5 times the power AND is rear wheel drive...
IF you've never been brought up on rear wheel drive cars it's a totally different feeling

I have driven plenty of other RWD cars with lots of power, though. It just feels geared around misbehaving and doesn't seem happy if you're not.

[3dcandy]

I have driven plenty of other RWD cars with lots of power, though. It just feels geared around misbehaving and doesn't seem happy if you're not.

Not arguing here...

[Flibb]

Back on the subject of electric cars
http://www.kentlive.news/a-man-said-...ail/story.html

Think he is a bit of an idiot, thoughts?

[peterb]

Pity he didn't do his research before buying the car. Lack of local charging points is one factor (among several) informing my decision not to go EV at the moment.

[1stRaven]

Any pointers of where to look? Nearest I can get is About £2K up front (inc fee), then £150 a month based on 10K miles a year, I assume that its not one with battery hire. Just a shame there is no charging where my wife works, would be ideal for her.

Used cars - https://speakev.com/threads/leaf-pcp...n-deals.70809/

An older example of new car deals - https://speakev.com/threads/brand-ne...r-month.42777/

Due to the new leaf coming out in the next few months, the deals are reducing as they ramp down production. But speakev is a very good place to find the deals that come up.

[3dcandy]

I'm with peterb - charging infrastructure isn't there yet

[Rational]

The 2018 Nissan Leaf reveal is about to be ...revealed within the next hour and a half. Check it out. Used leafs coming off of lease should help drop prices further on older models and make it easy to pick up some incredible deals. Fantastic TOC numbers making some of these steals.