QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Question: Everyone keeps trying to sell these cars using the INSANE acceleration as a major factor... with additional focus on the town driving superiority of these things.
Aside from my assertion that many drivers really aren't to be trusted with such ridiculous power in the first place - When on Earth are people going to need this?

How often do you need to reach 60mph in under 2.6 seconds, when moving off the lights down the Oxford Road, or ambling out of Sainsbury's?

You have not watched Police Interceptors have you??

[adidan]

Handy for overtaking.

[peterb]

How often do you need to reach 60mph in under 2.6 seconds, when moving off the lights down the Oxford Road, or ambling out of Sainsbury's?

Very rarely, as I'm sure you know with your bike that has that sort of performance.

[directhex]

Question: Everyone keeps trying to sell these cars using the INSANE acceleration as a major factor... with additional focus on the town driving superiority of these things.
Aside from my assertion that many drivers really aren't to be trusted with such ridiculous power in the first place - When on Earth are people going to need this?

How often do you need to reach 60mph in under 2.6 seconds, when moving off the lights down the Oxford Road, or ambling out of Sainsbury's?

Any town with non-trivial traffic?

Or, and I don't know if you have them in your parts, but "roundabouts"?

Busy roundabout, waiting for a (rare) gap allowing you to turn right. In a diesel, a gap finally appears and.. oh, nope, by the time the turbochargers and hyperchargers and gigachargers kick in and get you enough torque to move, the gap is long gone.

[DanceswithUnix]

Interesting article doing the rounds about a company that has a Tesla S which has hit the 300K miles mark. Much lower servicing costs compared to other cars in their fleet, a third of which seems to be related to an incident when they drove it into deep water.

http://jalopnik.com/this-is-what-hap...-te-1798662230

[Ttaskmaster]

You have not watched Police Interceptors have you??

I'm happy for the Police to have them, but not Mrs Miggins out for her Sunday bimble...

Very rarely, as I'm sure you know with your bike that has that sort of performance.

Which is my point - I can go that fast, yet never ever need to use more than a third of that power.

Busy roundabout, waiting for a (rare) gap allowing you to turn right. In a diesel, a gap finally appears and.. oh, nope, by the time the turbochargers and hyperchargers and gigachargers kick in and get you enough torque to move, the gap is long gone.

Ah, right. So gap, stamp, BANG as you plough into the traffic in front doing 0-45 in under 2 seconds on a 30mph roundabout.
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about and why we don't want all and sundry having fast, silent cages all over the place.

Also, I dunno what kind of diesels you drive, but mine doesn't seem to suffer from this problem...
Then again, I could cope just as fine with a mere 12bhp engine as well, because I learned to use forward planning and observation rather than relying on power.

[adidan]

Like I say, great for overtaking, especially on country roads which would make it safer rather than risky.

[peterb]

I'm happy for the Police to have them, but not Mrs Miggins out for her Sunday bimble...

So you would like a ban on all 'performance' vehicle for everyone except police?

Which is my point - I can go that fast, yet never ever need to use more than a third of that power.

But obviously the rest of us can't be trusted to exercise that type of control.

Ah, right. So gap, stamp, BANG as you plough into the traffic in front doing 0-45 in under 2 seconds on a 30mph roundabout.
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about and why we don't want all and sundry having fast, silent cages all over the place.

Certainly don't want the 'wrong type of people' having access to technology - heaven forbid {/sarcasm}. So if you dont want all and sundry - who would you graciously permit?

Also, I dunno what kind of diesels you drive, but mine doesn't seem to suffer from this problem...
Then again, I could cope just as fine with a mere 12bhp engine as well, because I learned to use forward planning and observation rather than relying on power.

And yet you don't - you choose drive a performance vehicle but you would deny that choice to other people.

You are either arguing the toss against electric vehicles for the sake of it, or you have have some elitist view of vehicle ownership - dictated by you.

But I suspect most performance EV drivers are more interested in economy rather than performance and are no less responsible than any other driver - in fact I'd suggest that since they are currently paying a premium for vehicle, they are likely to be more responsible.

[Ttaskmaster]

Like I say, great for overtaking, especially on country roads which would make it safer rather than risky.

So why is it so many people stuff it up, especially on country roads, when their existing vehicles are more than capable in terms of performance and how would having even more performance make it safer?

So you would like a ban on all 'performance' vehicle for everyone except police?

I don't think that'd be a problem, really.
At one stage manufacturers themselves were limiting vehicle performances.

But obviously the rest of us can't be trusted to exercise that type of control.

*I* can't be trusted, either.
I tend not to misbehave, but I still have on occasion. Like I said, no matter how much I misbehave, there's usually been someone behind me trying to push it further.

Certainly don't want the 'wrong type of people' having access to technology - heaven forbid {/sarcasm}. So if you dont want all and sundry - who would you graciously permit?

To be honest, I wouldn't. Not unless you're racing on a track, which would then make the vehicle illegal for road use.

And yet you don't - you choose drive a performance vehicle but you would deny that choice to other people.

Actually I didn't choose it. My 40bhp bike died and this one came to me for free. It's a tourer and the selling points are the easy, forgiving ride and the wide, smooth torque range across all gears, rather than the acceleration. It was orginally designed as a Sports racer, but deemed far too heavy (almost double the weight of competitors) so they re-did it as a Tourer. It also requires quite a lot of effort to misbehave on it and isn't very good at doing so.

Or if you mean the car (which was also free and not what I'd have chosen), it's a big heavy old 1.9, with a power:weight ratio only slightly higher than the 12bhp bike (0.09 vs 0.08, respectively, with my current bike at 0.49), but again you can't drive that by relying on power, either.

But yes, even though I have 130 horses under my own hood, they see very little use. I do wonder (and used to wonder, even as a kid) why we need vehicles with 3, 4 or 500hp in the same kinds of frames and would not see it being a big problem if such things were indeed denied... same as 215mph road vehicles being limited when 70mph is all you need (and even are allowed).

You are either arguing the toss against electric vehicles for the sake of it, or you have have some elitist view of vehicle ownership - dictated by you.

Bit of both, probably - I find many things that I hate about EVs anyway, but I'm also a biker and therefore as born-awesome as a fighter pilot!!
Most people suffer from some degree of elitism and snobbery, anyway... especially when it comes to Škodas!

I am raising concerns, though, as well as challenging the concepts behind EVs and driving culture...
For example, many people argue that old people cannot cope with modern driving because it's so much faster - Is it really a good idea to then put a load of very fast EV cars around?
Just this week, I've seen people misjudge speeds and pull out on oncoming vehicles, the latter of which were still well within speed limits. A friend also trashed the MR2 he spent three months carefully restoring, when he accidentally hit the throttle instead of the brake and fired it into a tree.

But I suspect most performance EV drivers are more interested in economy rather than performance and are no less responsible than any other driver

So again I ask, why is the massive acceleration the thing they're trying to sell me on?
Even the LEAF guy sat next to me, who used to maintain daily spreadsheets of the cheapest fuel stations locally and can tell you the cheapest, most efficient train routes to anywhere just from his head - He still harps on about how fast his EV is...

in fact Id suggest that since they are currently paying a premium for vehicle, they are likely to be more responsible.

But when every silly sausage owns one and they're standard fare for the roads, do you not think that same irresponsibility inherrent in driving in general would have a much higher rate of KSI accidents?
I don't really see Off-The-Lights racing at traffic junctions so much any more, as it tends to be one massively faster vehicle hooning off past slow pootle-wagons - What do you think it will be like when everyone is driving Ferarri-fast Fiestas, Fiats and Fabias?

[adidan]

So why is it so many people stuff it up, especially on country roads, when their existing vehicles are more than capable in terms of performance and how would having even more performance make it safer?

Many stuff it up because they over estimate the distance, the time and the power that is available to them.

There are many cars out there that don't accelerate as quickly as people think they will. Of course it will make it safer in some situations.

It will never account for stupidity though.

[Ttaskmaster]

Many stuff it up because they over estimate the distance, the time and the power that is available to them.

I understood it was mostly loss of control, particularly on country roads, which would make it more dangerous with a higher performance vehicle.

There are many cars out there that don't accelerate as quickly as people think they will. Of course it will make it safer in some situations.

In some, yes.
But the cars don't accelerate as fast as people think, because people don't know their cars well enough and are relying on power they don't realise they don't have. Forward planning is again the key here.

It will never account for stupidity though.

And that is what I'm afraid of.
If they think they have more power, people will try and chance it with more gaps and with smaller gaps (because powah, innit?), resulting in more accidents.

One other thought to add to this part, since my weekend just got booked to fix up a Landie that costs more than double my annual salary:

in fact Id suggest that since they are currently paying a premium for vehicle, they are likely to be more responsible.

You'd think so....
But there's more than one garage, just here in Reading, that specialises in fixing up crashed and trashed "Prestige" cars. While we don't quite get that level of things in, we do get a lot of cheap rear-ended and expensive front-ended repair jobs.

[adidan]

If they think they have more power, people will try and chance it with more gaps and with smaller gaps (because powah, innit?), resulting in more accidents.

That's a fair point although I'm not sure it will cause good drivers to become bad or bad drivers to become good. It may enable good drivers to avoid bad drivers more often.

That may be wishful thinking though.

[Ttaskmaster]

That's a fair point although I'm not sure it will cause good drivers to become bad or bad drivers to become good. It may enable good drivers to avoid bad drivers more often.

I'm thinking more that it will mean good drivers have to avoid more bad driving more often...!
It's a bit like power tools vs hand tools in wood working - If your basic underlying skills aren't up to scratch, power only helps to make your mistakes faster and more severe.

[adidan]

I'm thinking more that it will mean good drivers have to avoid more bad driving more often...!
It's a bit like power tools vs hand tools in wood working - If your basic underlying skills aren't up to scratch, power only helps to make your mistakes faster and more severe.

Ha, yeah I get what you're saying.

I guess the only way to avoid that is to have fully automated vehicles but then we're left with machines deciding who lives and who dies when there's a no win situation of a collision. Does a machine hit a bike, a pedestrian, a vehicle or a tree? Does it protect its passenger above all else or sacrifice them to save others?

Ok, tangent alert.

[DanceswithUnix]

But yes, even though I have 130 horses under my own hood, they see very little use. I do wonder (and used to wonder, even as a kid) why we need vehicles with 3, 4 or 500hp in the same kinds of frames and would not see it being a big problem if such things were indeed denied... same as 215mph road vehicles being limited when 70mph is all you need (and even are allowed).

I think when people talk about a car being fast, they are badly articulating a lot of things.

Driving a 45bhp car that struggles to get to 70mph is not as much fun as driving a car like yours that can easily get to 70mph. If you double the power again to get a car that really easily gets to 70mph then you get a really relaxed driving experience. How easily do you want your car to get to 70mph? How much do you want to just not notice steep hills when pootling around the likes of Wales?

It is just nicer and more relaxing to drive. I suspect your bike would not be as nice to drive long distance if you swapped the engine for a 125cc, and it wouldn't be the top speed you missed.

[DanceswithUnix]

I guess the only way to avoid that is to have fully automated vehicles but then we're left with machines deciding who lives and who dies when there's a no win situation of a collision. Does a machine hit a bike, a pedestrian, a vehicle or a tree? Does it protect its passenger above all else or sacrifice them to save others?

TBH I wouldn't expect most humans to make a good decision there.