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Thread: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    No. My next car will also be a bicycle. However, if I wanted a car I would only consider an electric one instead of these prehistoric, smelly and noisy, completely environmentally unfriendly, pieces of last century tech. More people should be absolutely rejoicing they're going away.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    No, because I don't have a driving licence but if I did I would get an electric one.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Range and charging speed need to go way up, but if they do, there's a pretty good chance.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    No, as my next car will be costing under a grand. Wrong end of the market.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Nope. Nothing like the listening to the roar of a V6/V8 engine when you put the pedal down.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    I had a ride in a Tesla S not long ago. Now all other cars feel like stone-age jalopies and it amazes me that there are people buying any other car at that price point.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomthum View Post
    what happens in 3/5yrs when the batteries pack up you will have to spend £3000/4000 on batteries I don't think so
    So far the battery life in the cars seems much closer to 10 years, plus there's still some residual value in the old batteries which can be retired into home storage use.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by SineWave View Post
    No. My next car will also be a bicycle. However, if I wanted a car I would only consider an electric one instead of these prehistoric, smelly and noisy, completely environmentally unfriendly, pieces of last century tech. More people should be absolutely rejoicing they're going away.
    The environmental impact of EV's very much depend on the source of their power, for example it's more environmentally friendly to use prehistoric, smelly and noisy petrol vehicles in China due to their dependance on even more prehistoric and smelly coal fired power stations.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    I'd honestly love an electric car but it really isn't worth the cost right now. I am due to get a new car early next year. What are my electric options for my 100-mile daily commute? Not many, or at least not many on a sensible budget.

    I'm currently intending to spend around £20k on a car that's less than 1-year-old (so old tax) and under 6k miles. It will be a diesel as petrol just isn't worth the extra fuel cost.

    For this, I can get a Skoda Superb or a VW Passat. I intend to keep the car for around 7 or so years before I'll change it (unlesss it dies beforehand which I doubt).

    I spend about £40 a week on diesel now. I currently get 62 mpg on my 2010 focus.

    Roughly my costs will be:

    Initial cost over 7 years for car and tax = £20210
    Fuel (Approx and only for work which I only have for 9 months of the year) = £11200
    Then I will have the costs of services and things which is impossible to determine but a full service is about £300 so 7 of them = £2100

    Total cost (as a guide) - £33510

    Now, I know this isn't exact but it gives me a good idea of the total cost for ME over 7 or so years. At the end of this, I can probably sell the car on (amount depending on mileage and condition).

    And this is my point. I have looked at electric cars (I'm 6ft 6 so the smaller ones ain't gonna work!) that can do the kind of mileage I need and they are costing about £33000 just to buy.

    This doesn't include charging costs, charger costs, maintenance, battery rental costs etc.

    So this is why now isn't the time for an electric car. And I haven't even mentioned the poor infrastructure for electric cars and the other areas that people have mentioned.

    Now, IF the government was to offer some incentives to make the initial cost cheaper I COULD change my mind. But they haven't. So I think we are still years away from these cars becoming the norm. MUCH needs to change beforehand including the amount of disposable income people can call upon.
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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad77 View Post
    I had a ride in a Tesla S not long ago. Now all other cars feel like stone-age jalopies and it amazes me that there are people buying any other car at that price point.
    Because there are many more considerations than just how the ride feels.
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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    I'd love to make the jump, but the fact is that currently, no one makes an electric car that I really want to buy, let alone one I can afford. Currently available models are:

    BMW i3 - pretty ugly, short range, expensive
    Citroen CZero - even uglier, shorter range, price is fine but its so small and..ugly
    Mahindra e2o - ^^
    Peugeot iOn - ^^
    Smart ForTwo/Four ED - ^^
    VW e-up - ^^
    Focus Electric - first one on the list that looks like a car, but expensive, its a focus and tiny range
    Hyundai Ioniq - ugly again, price is reasonable but range is till short
    Kia Soul EV - ugly and expensive..
    Merc B class - Ugly and expensive with a tiny range
    Nissan Leaf - very ugly car, very short range, price is OK though on PCP
    Renault Zoe - pretty ugly with a short range, price is reasonable as with the leaf
    Tesla Model S/X - kind of OK to look at but very american 90s sedan in style. Super expensive, awful interior, but the first good car in the list with a good range
    VW e-golf - looks good (like a normal car!!) but expensive with a short range
    BMW i8 - beautiful but tiny range and well, expensive.


    I think thats it apart from Morgans option.

    The trend there is that the vast majority of currently available models look strange - its like manufacturers have decided they dont want to make a "normal" looking EV and they must all be special and unique..well that's the number one turn off for me. I don't get why they can't make an EV that looks like a normal car rather than all the oddball models above.

    Short range is the next common trend - aside from the tesla all of the others have less than a 200 mile range before needing a recharge. My feeling is that you need at least a 400 mile best-case range (assume 300 mile real world use) before you get past the range anxiety. I get 300miles out of my current car so that would be equivalent for me at that point. Charging is becoming a non issue and by the time there are enough cars on the road it will be accessible to the vast majority of people - there is so much money going into the charging infrastructure right now that I wouldn't worry about it.

    Finally price - they are all a good 30% or more expensive than their petrol powered equivalents. I don't think thats actually a big issue as we'll start to see prices drop and level out as the market grows.

    The turning point will be when the major marques start to make electric versions of their regular cars. VW, Ford and Mercedes have started this (albeit in short range versions), but over the next few years we should see all electric BMWs/Skodas/Fiats etc and they won't look quite so crazy and ridiculous as the list above. THEN we'll start to see electric sales grow.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    I think in households that already have 2 cars, then having the second car as an EV might be OK for your daily commute (depending on your distance) with the "family" car for the longer journeys/practicality. If you rely on just one car, then a range extender might work but still are very pricey.

    I saw an advert for the Smart electric car and thought that might be a good commuter car but at £21k OTR price, it's nearly twice the price of a normal one!

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Just another quick thought - presently the infrastructure for charging is crap. James May tried to do a long run in a hybrid electric and found the charging points to be broken. You just couldn't take that risk. A petrol station rarely has a single pump down but to not be able to find a charging point could be completely and utterly ruinous. If you planned 30 mins stop and there was one charge point and two people already waiting then you've got easily 1.5 hour wait for a top up.

    If we were to go electric then I really think the only way to do it would be some kind of subscription model and standardised batteries which are quickly changed. You pull into the ex-petrol station and swap out your battery in 2 or 3 minutes, pay and drive off. With a fuel station if there's only one operational pump then the worst is a ten minute wait. Also, I think a lot of the charging points were paid for by the EU. I expect we won't be seeing an expansion of the program for the foreseeable future.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    The environmental impact of EV's very much depend on the source of their power, for example it's more environmentally friendly to use prehistoric, smelly and noisy petrol vehicles in China due to their dependance on even more prehistoric and smelly coal fired power stations.
    Isn't the best ICE around 25-30% efficient whereas an electric motor is closer to 100%?

    And even a coal-fired power station should be able to achieve that kind of efficiency and being far bigger making a scrubbing the particle pollution more viable. Of course both assume a fairly modern plant so that might not apply to China. However, China is currently making the biggest investment in renewables and nuclear the world has ever seen.

    Anyway, while it would be very nice to have cleaner air in cities, electric cars don't do anything for road fatalities*, nor do they make cities safer for pedestrians or cyclists. For city traffic ebikes and e-mopeds would be a far better idea and are easier to roll out. Problem is that they are not 'aspirational' and their safety is compromised by having to mix with motorcars. In many ways, the Sinclair C5 was way ahead of its time but the UK was (and is) the wrong country for it. But then so is China. Might have gotten somewhere in the Netherlands though but then they've been building excellent infrastructure for cycling (and walking) since the 1970s.


    *Traffic fatalities are 1,250,000 per year worldwide and most of those are in the third world. China has 260,000+ while the UK 'only' has 1,800.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Isn't the best ICE around 25-30% efficient whereas an electric motor is closer to 100%?
    Nope, absolutely not. The best internal combustion engines are in the realm of 30% efficient, but there are differences in diesel and petrol due to compression ignition. Incidentally, there's about to be a huge step up in petrol efficiency as compression ignition petrol engines (veeery clever) come on stream in 2019ish.

    You can claim that an electric motor is ~95% efficient however this is in the most efficient states such as cruising. Setting off and so on rapidly diminishes the efficiency. Moreover you need to look at all of this as a system from the point at which the fuel is burned. So you start off, normally, with a hydrocarbon based fuel. You may say you can have 30% or s of that from nuclear and wind (generous in most countries). Even then, with about 30% efficiency at the plant you then lose around 15-20% in grid losses from conversion and transmission over distance. You then lose about 15% from charging and discharging the battery. So the actual end result is about a dead heat at the moment, and that's assuming a VERY generous 95% efficient electric motor and on top of that a very generous 30% electricity from non hydrocarbon sources. This is before you account for massively increased weight of the EV from the batteries.

    When compression ignition petrol engines are the norm, it'll be massively better. That said, energy density of batteries will also improve, decreasing weight and increasing range. Generation / conversion / transmission efficiency is liable to stay the same.

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    Re: QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Is that on a lease plan, and if so does that include the final payment? The problem if you hand the car back is that you then have to find the deposit for the next one.
    The deposit was £200 on that deal but over the last few years, offers have been around £200 - £800 for the deposit.

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