QOTW: Will your next car be electric?

[1stRaven]

what happens in 3/5yrs when the batteries pack up you will have to spend £3000/4000 on batteries I don't think so

Most electric cars are offering 8 years warranty on the battery packs, with limit of the degradation that you will see. There are leaf's down in cornwall who have done over 100k and have just lost 10% of the battery pack's capacity.

Now, IF the government was to offer some incentives to make the initial cost cheaper I COULD change my mind. But they haven't. So I think we are still years away from these cars becoming the norm. MUCH needs to change beforehand including the amount of disposable income people can call upon.

They do. £5000 off the price of the car plus £500 towards your charge point at home. Nissan will also help with this if you do for the leaf so you can have the basic charge point fitted for free, or the upgraded one fitted for £95.

[r4nd0m1st]

I was asked about this when defending my PhD thesis last year. The examiners were both well respected researchers in mechanical engineering. My answer was that the electric car doesn't have the infrastructure, and the national grid isn't ready for the energy usage to be transferred onto it. Environmentally electric cars are really not much better than a modern petrol engine, and emissions are not the only factor. Electric cars also use materials that are more scarce than anything used in an ICE car, the majority of which are non-renewable and non-recyclable. Then looking forwards, the pace of development of the electric car product has been rapid, but the underlying technologies haven't really developed much. In contrast the internal combustion engine and its fuels have developed slowly for decades until recently, but recent improvements in understanding of the combustion processes involved has accelerated this. Engine technology, such as CAI engines, downsizing even further with greater specific output and alternative fuels such as synthetics, is developing faster than the electric car technology.

Funnily enough the examiners agreed.

At the moment I think I'll stay with the internal combustion engine. Preferably with an energy harvesting system for energy that is otherwise wasted during braking, and an electric motor to put that energy to better use. I don't know if we'll be using petrol as a fuel in the long term, or a synthetic that doesn't use any/as much fossil fuel, but diesel looks set to die out. Lubricants should be changing in their formulation due to their influence on knock, especially in turbo charged engines.

[peterb]

Environmentally electric cars are really not much better than a modern petrol engine, and emissions are not the only factor. Electric cars also use materials that are more scarce than anything used in an ICE car, the majority of which are non-renewable and non-recyclable.

The only things that might contain 'exotic' materials are the permanent magnets in motors and the lithium in the batteries - both of which could be recycled - it just needs the investment in recycling facilities.

The advantage of rechargeable batteries is the ease of distribution of electricity, hydrogen (for fuel cells or IC) needs to be transported.

I'd agree that the UKs installed electrical generation capacity and Nation Grid infrastruction neefs improving, but it is claimed that there are plans to do that anyway. Other technologies that would allow charging when other demand is low might be used to even out the load - or electricity pricing incentives at times of surplus supply.

From a Government PoV the question is how to replace the revenue raised from fuel duty and VAT.

[The Hand]

Most likely a hybrid for me. By the time it needs replacing, the infrastructure for electric should be well established.

[peterb]

Most likely a hybrid for me. By the time it needs replacing, the infrastructure for electric should be well established.

Problem with hybrid is that you lose the advantage of simpler maintenance and you increase complexity and mass with a more complex drive train and add the mass of the traction battery. Hybrids don't seem to offer much in the way of i improved economy for the additional expense.

[TeePee]

The only things that might contain 'exotic' materials are the permanent magnets in motors and the lithium in the batteries - both of which could be recycled - it just needs the investment in recycling facilities.

Lithium is expensive now, because of the high demand, but it isn't rare. It's only in the last couple of decades that there has been real demand, and as a result the supply side hasn't caught up. It will, probably within the next couple of years, and prices will tumble. This means that recycling batteries for lithium is unlikely to be of long term financial benefit. Cobalt, on the other hand, could be a good target for recycling, as the supply chain is incredibly dubious and from unfriendly countries with child labour, etc. Tesla is forecast to use 6% of the worlds supply of cobalt each year.

I think we're supposed to distract everyone from thinking about children mining cobalt by talking about the future of graphene...

[Percy1983]

Isn't there talk of 'smart' car charging where the charge station could take the cars off charging for short periods during peaks.

I know there was an idea to do that with smart fridges/freezers that they shut off for a couple of minutes during peaks (ie the advert break in big soaps whern a load of kettles all get switched on).

[wazzickle]

Hopefully. Just bought a car a couple of months ago (64 plate) and as long as I treat this one right, I should have it for long enough before it becomes more economical to have an electric car, to which I'm really looking forward.

[1stRaven]

Isn't there talk of 'smart' car charging where the charge station could take the cars off charging for short periods during peaks.

I know there was an idea to do that with smart fridges/freezers that they shut off for a couple of minutes during peaks (ie the advert break in big soaps whern a load of kettles all get switched on).

Better than that, they are looking into options where electric cars supply the local grid in times of peak demand. So you plug your car in when you get home and it can run your house during the evening demand and you don't have to pay for the peak time energy use. You then charge your car overnight, when electricity is cheap. It ends up saving you money on your energy bills. It just needs the clever box of tricks to allow for the switching of energy supplies at the house feed as well as cars that will allow electric to be pulled from the battery pack.

[Csikasz]

I hope I will have the money to have a beautiful petrol one

[cyberguy]

Nope

Miserable range: I get about 700Km/tank with an ICE

To slow to charge: No fast charge stations near me and it takes me too long to recharge at home, but gas stations are everywhere it takes me no longer than 5 min to fill my ICE car from empty

Too costly: ICE cars with the above mileage are available for a little as $20K CAN. Compare that to a Tesla S 100D for over $182.5K CAN YIKES!!

[Fury559]

It already is. Picked up a 30Kwh in April this year, trading in my Jag XJL. It is costing me around £2 to charge it up and a charge is lasting around a week at the moment.

Cant understand why more people dont have them. The cost savings cover the cost of the car, to a point where I have a car with no mot, covered under warranty for around £100 per month.

Granted, longer journeys can take some planning but I have ended up borrowing a free car from Nissan for one holiday and renting another car for £100 for a week's holiday. Good chance to test drive other vehicles.

Yeah but electric is boring

[Percy1983]

I will say from my point of view on range, when I think realistically I am not a road warrior and the range isn't an issue, I agree there will be some with long commutes etc which can be a different ball game.

From a driving point of view they are actually nice to drive, had a go in a leaf and the instant torque is amazing, you can get away quicker than any petrol car, of course it doesn't take long for a powerful petrol car to catch up and leave you for dust but off the line electric cars are unbeatable.

[Flibb]

The deposit was £200 on that deal but over the last few years, offers have been around £200 - £800 for the deposit.

Any pointers of where to look? Nearest I can get is About £2K up front (inc fee), then £150 a month based on 10K miles a year, I assume that its not one with battery hire. Just a shame there is no charging where my wife works, would be ideal for her.

[Corky34]

Isn't the best ICE around 25-30% efficient whereas an electric motor is closer to 100%?

And even a coal-fired power station should be able to achieve that kind of efficiency and being far bigger making a scrubbing the particle pollution more viable. Of course both assume a fairly modern plant so that might not apply to China. However, China is currently making the biggest investment in renewables and nuclear the world has ever seen.

I've not looked into the efficiency of the competing technologies or China's investments in renewable energy so i can't comment on those, i only wanted to highlight how it's not a simple matter of EV's good, petrol bad, like most things is a complex picture.

Personally if i ruled the world, or even a country for that matter, I'd be pumping money into fusion reactors as we really need a environmentally friendly source of power and renewables simply can't provide all the power we need, sadly though investment in fusion research is so low it will probably take decades before we crack that nut.

[Spreadie]

Will my next car be electric?

No.