Trump to meet US video game industry heads on Thursday

[TeePee]

The second amendment referred to a "Well regulated Militia" and the implication was - until 2008 that the right to bear arms was within the context of that militia. It was only by a narrow margin that the Supreme court upheld the right of individuals to carry weapons.

The requirement for each State to have a standing militia was in the context of the 18th century. Is there still that requirement now? Would it harm the integrity of the United States if that amendment was repealed. Constitutions are not set in tablets of stone, as the other 26 amendments would indicate.

With regard to lorries as a weapon, its true they can be used as a weapon (although hardly a concealed one) in addition to its primary purpose. The primary purpose of a gun is as a weapon.

A healthy breakfast being an essential part of a productive day, the right of the people to prepare and eat food shall not be infringed.

Seems to be very clearly written to me...

A process exists to amend The Constitution, and that is the only legal method to implement gun control. That is the path that those politicians who believe in such a thing need to follow. It wouldn't pass, of course, but restricting civil rights should be hard.

[Corky34]

Yea because quoting a single amendment to a constitution laying out how the newly formed federal government should operate and what powers it would and wouldn't have from over 200 year ago is not at all out of context, heck it wasn't until 130 years later that the courts ruled that it even applied to individual states.

EDIT: BTW the context is actually written down in the constitution, Article one, section 8 states the congress shall have power...

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

So if we are to take the meaning of militia to mean the people then where is the provision for organizing, arming, and disciplining, where are the officers, where is the training?

[Ironbuket]

My 12 bore is way more dangerous than a .22 rim fire pistol, BUT they're our rules and we have to live with them.

Did you know there are semi automatic .22 guns that can easily be fitted with a bump stock and can hold over 100 round clips? A shotgun is not more damgerous than a rifle with a large clip, you are having a laugh?

Crazy gunman with a shotgun vs cops wont take long to sort out, now try taking on a crazy guy with a high capacity semi-auto rifle even if it was only .22

If shotguns were realy as good as you imply, the army would use them and they dont

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Did you know there are semi automatic .22 guns that can easily be fitted with a bump stock and can hold over 100 round clips? A shotgun is not more damgerous than a rifle with a large clip, you are having a laugh?

Crazy gunman with a shotgun vs cops wont take long to sort out, now try taking on a crazy guy with a high capacity semi-auto rifle even if it was only .22

If shotguns were realy as good as you imply, the army would use them and they dont

Here is a semi-automatic AR15 with and without a bump stock with a 40 round magazine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5k



Look at how quick you can shoot without a bump stock - now look what happens when you have a bump stock.

I mean seriously,its bad enough without a bump stock - with one its even more ridiculous.

[DanceswithUnix]

Look at how quick you can shoot without a bump stock - now look what happens when you have a bump stock.

I mean seriously,its bad enough without a bump stock - with one its even more ridiculous.

Not something I can really watch at the office, but I am reminded of the old saying that 50 misses per minute is not firepower. Seeing a telescopic sight and bumpstock on the same weapon is ludicrous.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not something I can really watch at the office, but I am reminded of the old saying that 50 misses per minute is not firepower. Seeing a telescopic sight and bumpstock on the same weapon is ludicrous.

Don't need accuracy if you are shooting into an enclosed area like a building and can fire off 40 rounds and then quickly reload the same weapon.

An example of what happens when said weapons are additionally modified:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nort...ywood_shootout

It reminds me about the old saying that when hunting and defending yourself spraying and praying does not work but when you want to kill lots of people it works fine.

Also since military weapons have semi automatic and automatic modes and also have things like sights obviously militaries think for killing people at greater ranges it's useful to have.

I mean that is what the assault rifle was - a combination of the battle rifle and submachine gun as a do all weapon effective over multiple ranges during combat.

This seems to be proved by the point that the Las Vegas shooter still had no issue killing 58 people from high up in his hotel room.

[MLyons]

The coaches and teachers are already targets, because they are most likely to try to protect their students. Let's help them do that!

The underlying cause of the high murder rate? We've already seen that's cultural, mostly the product of gang violence and the failed legal justice system. Mass killings? Again, they happen everywhere, but the US with it's disasterous healthcare has failed the mentally ill. No one blames lorries for vehicle attacks.

But in what way do you think the Second Amendment has been 'subverted'? It's a very clear statement, and any form of gun control is a subversion of that Amendment, your tone suggests that's not what you meant.

So why is this high murder rate not observed in say the UK? Because the UK also has a failed justice system. Mass killings? Happened in the UK then we thought "ya know what, we might want to do something about this" Not "it's the price we pay for freedom/kids a terrorist/they were muslim/they were black etc what ever other BS the American media go with.

Did you know there are semi automatic .22 guns that can easily be fitted with a bump stock and can hold over 100 round clips? A shotgun is not more damgerous than a rifle with a large clip, you are having a laugh?

Crazy gunman with a shotgun vs cops wont take long to sort out, now try taking on a crazy guy with a high capacity semi-auto rifle even if it was only .22

If shotguns were realy as good as you imply, the army would use them and they dont

This completely depends on the scenario. Close range in a really crowded room... such as a classroom? A shotgun is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than an AR.

[DanceswithUnix]

Don't need accuracy if you are shooting into an enclosed area like a building and can fire off 40 rounds and then quickly reload the same weapon.

An example of what happens when said weapons are additionally modified:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nort...ywood_shootout

Sounds like bringing an assault rifle to a grenade fight.

I didn't remember the North Hollywood shootout, but from that article 22 people hurt by 2000 rounds, that's a 99% miss rate.

But I guess I was just wierded out by the scope sight for accuracy at range and the bump stock which destroys the accuracy. Seems a really odd combo.

[DanceswithUnix]

This completely depends on the scenario. Close range in a really crowded room... such as a classroom? A shotgun is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than an AR.

This is starting to read like a sick version of Top Trumps. I am stunned you can bump-stock a 0.22 though, you get very little recoil of something that small.

I have seen someone shot at close range with a .22 and I don't believe they suffered any long term ill effects (for a nasty accident they were lucky) but I wouldn't want to see the same thing happen with a shotgun.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sounds like bringing an assault rifle to a grenade fight.

I didn't remember the North Hollywood shootout, but from that article 22 people hurt by 2000 rounds, that's a 99% miss rate.

But I guess I was just wierded out by the scope sight for accuracy at range and the bump stock which destroys the accuracy. Seems a really odd combo.

It worked fine for the chap who killed 58 people. That shootout was significant if you saw footage of it. Most of the injured people were the dozens of police and SWAT officers who had body armour and even with weapons like the MP5, and found it difficult to take on TWO people armed with modified weapons. They robbers also had their own home made body armour. The MP5 is used by our police here(IIRC) and was used by the SAS.

I can still remember a scene with heavily armed SWAT officers hiding behind a truck since they were pinned down by the two shooting bursts of automatic fire. The bullets were passing through cars FFS,so the normal police could not even take cover.

It was lucky for the police that one of the robbers guns jammed and that a police officer noticed they had not fully armoured their feet so shot one of the robbers in the foot.

Now remember the robbers were robbing banks,and were not there to kill civilians,so were mostly shooting at law enforcement to escape. If they were there to kill civilians dozens of people would have probably died.

So basically the supremacy of law enforcement and the military is reduced if civilians are more or less given weapons which can challenge them.

This is starting to read like a sick version of Top Trumps. I am stunned you can bump-stock a 0.22 though, you get very little recoil of something that small.

I have seen someone shot at close range with a .22 and I don't believe they suffered any long term ill effects (for a nasty accident they were lucky) but I wouldn't want to see the same thing happen with a shotgun.

Then convert that to a few 0.22 rounds per person,the fact they will be at least disabled or injured even after one shot,the fact that with 20 to 100 bullets,you can continue shooting for quite a while. But TBH there even exists combat shotguns with semi-automatic fire modes and magazine reloads.

So again,not a single person here advocating semi-automatic guns as fine by direct or sideways logic can explain why high fire rate,semi-automatic weapons,with large magazines,quick reload ability and designed by the gun companies for mostly killing people,is required to fight off an intruder,or hunt.

Seems its really only for "toy" and "fun" reasons,but at this rate you might as well allow an RPO-A Shmel cause "reasons".

So why is this high murder rate not observed in say the UK? Because the UK also has a failed justice system. Mass killings? Happened in the UK then we thought "ya know what, we might want to do something about this" Not "it's the price we pay for freedom/kids a terrorist/they were muslim/they were black etc what ever other BS the American media go with.

Because there are probably gun fans here in the UK also probably who want the same level of weapons too since they are "cool",but luckily we have enough people who basically drew a line between reasonable gun laws,and people wanting toys for rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishs and giggles.

Plus it cuts the supremacy of the police and military down significantly,as civilians have close enough weapons to take them on.

This completely depends on the scenario. Close range in a really crowded room... such as a classroom? A shotgun is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than an AR.

At close range even a 0.22 semi-automatic,with a bump stock will be worse with a 100 round magazine - since you can spray lots of bullets quickly(like a submachine gun) and that is enough to at least incapacitate loads of people(if not mean many get multiple wounds) - it also means the injured people are less likely to be able to defend themselves too.

Now consider something like a 5.56MM or 5.7MM round - look at why those rounds were developed. They gave up stopping power,but made the guns using them easier to control,and since the ammo weighs less,a combat soldier could carry more ammo into combat. The 5.7MM round was developed for high velocity,ie,designed to go through Kevlar body armour.

[Spreadie]

The underlying cause of the high murder rate? We've already seen that's cultural, mostly the product of gang violence and the failed legal justice system. Mass killings? Again, they happen everywhere, but the US with it's disasterous healthcare has failed the mentally ill. No one blames lorries for vehicle attacks.

There you go again with your false equivalency nonsense.

It's the failing health care that forces these crazy folk to buy a gun at their supermarket and go on a rampage, not the laughable controls on firearms.

Always anything but the gun that is at fault.

BTW nobody blames a lorry because, unlike guns, killing folk wasn't the focus of its design.

[MLyons]

There you go again with your false equivalency nonsense.

It's the failing health care that forces these crazy folk to buy a gun at their supermarket and go on a rampage, not the laughable controls on firearms.

Always anything but the gun that is at fault.

BTW nobody blames a lorry because, unlike guns, killing folk wasn't the focus of its design.

tbh I think it's a mix of things. Obviously the main big issue is how easy to get guns. How shoddy and bloody expensive healthcare is. How militarised the police are (this can be linked to how armed the public are but the police don't need bloody tanks.) How bad the police over there are (I'm not even giving examples for this one if you don't see what I'm saying then go jump). How conflict seems to always be the 1st decision, this feels like a country wide thing.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

TBF,the US polices don't have tanks,but mostly armoured vehicles and MRAPs(mine resistant vehicles) drawn from US army surplus stocks,but TBH it still mental there are nearly 900 armoured vehicles in US police service(which is more than what some armies in the world have).

[MLyons]

Yes tanks was the wrong definition. Whatever they started using during riots and were then told hang on a second you weren't meant to be given those. Whatever those were

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes tanks was the wrong definition. Whatever they started using during riots and were then told hang on a second you weren't meant to be given those. Whatever those were

This is the program:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_p...terial_donated

IIRC,it was the military issue Humvees which were recalled as they apparently were given too many of them,and a more general recall for tracked vehicles which the police use,like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_a...sonnel_carrier

However,Trump basically called off the general recall that Obama had instigated.

However,the MRAPs were made to withstand landmines,etc so are verging on the weight of an APC/MICV and tend to be used by armies(not police departments). They are actually better armoured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Caiman
http://www.military-today.com/apc/cougar_mrap.htm

One of the types in US police usage - they weigh between 20 to 30 tons.

[DanceswithUnix]

The bullets were passing through cars FFS,

This often comes up in shootings, but I think it is down to people having an unrealistic idea of how strong cars are. Car bodywork is thin and soft to protect pedestrians if the drunkards walk out in front of you.

if you kick a car, even quite gently, you will cause hundreds of pounds worth of damage as sheet metal is rubbish at point loads. That is why body armour isn't made of metal, and rifle ranges use things like sand bags to stop bullets. If you see metal used it is at a steep angle to deflect the bullet not stop it.

Frankly I suspect with some effort I could 3D print a NERF gun round that could go through one layer of car bodywork. I'm reasonably sure I could knock up a home made bow and arrow that would go through a car like paper (as long as you avoid the engine block).

Don't mistake any of my comments for being pro automatic weapon, I'm not, but I have spent enough time around firearms that some of the hysteria I see just muddies the issue.