The eight guises of Vista

[yamangman]

I dont want linux to be hard, I want it to be nice and easy, so, find me an distro (I believe thats the right name) where I can put the cd in my drive and install it to my machine and it will install as easily as windows XP does. I downloaded that knoppix thing and that seems fine but is a CD based thing, I want something I can have a proper play with on a machine and not on a CD...
I have already downloaded both of the debian dvd iso's as thats meant to be a nice easy place to start.

Forget all that lardy dar rubbish. Get http://www.slackware.com/.

As for Windows and the new Vista, I won't be buying it for a rather long time, at least if what i've researched about the "trust computing" features is even remotly true. As for PC/MS/DR-DOS being of comparable usability to modern day explorer, that's just ludicrous. The given example of civ IV on XP 64 is unusual too. Nowhere does it state on the packaging that it's a suitable OS to pair it with.

[dangel]

Its funny you should mention that. I remember one of the things that Amiga owners dreaded was when they mentioned their computer and they would get "does it run windows?" NO IT RUNS A BETTER OS

Linux isnt easy, but neither is windows (or computers in general).

Well you *could* run windows technically... via emulation... just not very well. However the MacOS ran faster *under emulation* on the Amiga than it did on the Mac itself..
Most amusing

[AndyO]

For the most part it won't be tho will it? Joe bloggs will buy his Dell PC and get 'Vista' - the exact version of it will be irrelevant to him, just so long as it says Vista
Mr Server Admin will buy the server version that meets his company requirements and so on..

That sums it up nicely!! Think the whole thing will be largely transparent save to the purist who wants to know which components he/she doesn't have. They'll find out, THEN start missing them and wanting Vista GTi or whatever its gonna be Fair enough there'll clearly be a bloatware edition with a media layer over the top but apart from that, most folks will clearly never notice the version...

I think it'd all be worsened by the EU and it's 'non-media' versions of Windows insistance (I couldn't care less personally).

I think that's a bit harsh?! The EU is trying to do a good thing by limiting the MS monopoly - its the MS implementation strategy that complicates things, and its in their interests to make the non-media versions as unattractive as possible. Competition in the marketplace is in everone's interest after all.

If they'd removed mediaplayer from ALL versions, and simply had the option to download it instead then the playing field might have been levelled. But of course that was never going to happen.

[dangel]

Quite simple, in my opinion. I go to school, they use Windows. I go to the library, they use Windows. I go to a friend's house, they use Windows. I turn on the T.V. and get Windows adverts. There are Windows stickers on the sides of computers. The vast majority of people I know have never even heard of Linux. That's why Linux hasn't taken over.

I agree - but in addition I'd say it's become harder to persuade people away from Windows simply because Microsoft have improved it so much. First they got it stable and now they're obsessed with making it secure - both of which were 'selling' points for linux versus Windows (pre 2k).

Don't get me wrong - I'm not anti Linux (or any other OS) - it's just that for the vast majority Windows gets the job done now. Of course, if Vista is a steaming turd this will change again.. but the betas are good IMHO.

[dangel]

I think that's a bit harsh?! The EU is trying to do a good thing by limiting the MS monopoly - its the MS implementation strategy that complicates things, and its in their interests to make the non-media versions as unattractive as possible. Competition in the marketplace is in everone's interest after all.

If they'd removed mediaplayer from ALL versions, and simply had the option to download it instead then the playing field might have been levelled. But of course that was never going to happen.

I agree with you - but the problem is nobody actually cares. People expect a certain level of software with an OS: a media player, a browser, a basic text editor. *I* don't use IE, nor do i use Mediocre Player(tm) but it's still nice to have them installed to begin with. To me, it'd be rather frustrating to have to download those as well as the eight billion patches after a reinstall I agree MS need restricting, but I'm not sure 'N' versions of Window actually help anyone - nobody will buy them and so it's self defeating. Much better is to go after the large OEMs of the world - like Dell, and force them to offer you more alternatives to your pre-configured PC (which i'd argue represents the bulk of PC's sold) in tandem with MS and other companies. They already do this to a degree (just try buying a Dell PC without AOL on it!). Just a thought - I'd don't believe there's a 'cure all' pill for the situation.

[[GSV]Trig]

Its funny you should mention that. I remember one of the things that Amiga owners dreaded was when they mentioned their computer and they would get "does it run windows?" NO IT RUNS A BETTER OS

Linux isnt easy, but neither is windows (or computers in general).

My Amiga ran Windows back in the day, granted it was only a 486 but this was good enough back in the day for me to install 3.11 lol....

[AndyO]

I agree with you - but the problem is nobody actually cares. People expect a certain level of software with an OS: a media player, a browser, a basic text editor. *I* don't use IE, nor do i use Mediocre Player(tm) but it's still nice to have them installed to begin with. To me, it'd be rather frustrating to have to download those as well as the eight billion patches after a reinstall I agree MS need restricting, but I'm not sure 'N' versions of Window actually help anyone - nobody will buy them and so it's self defeating. Much better is to go after the large OEMs of the world - like Dell, and force them to offer you more alternatives to your pre-configured PC (which i'd argue represents the bulk of PC's sold) in tandem with MS and other companies. They already do this to a degree (just try buying a Dell PC without AOL on it!). Just a thought - I'd don't believe there's a 'cure all' pill for the situation.

Yeah know what you mean. And you raise a very good point about targetting the OEMs...but then they couldn't wave a 2m Euro a day fine (or whatever the mooted amount was) over them I guess! That's a fairly good incentive to act, even if you're as cash-rich as MS! I guess the other way (again, as you mention) would be to provide incentives for OEMs to bundle other software on my default, but that just promotes a different monopoly I suppose! I know my new PC came with RealPlayer installed in about fifteen guises throughout the OS - and I realised I hadn't even tried it in about 4 years!

I think my axe to grind is just that I hate the fact that the average consumer is basically laissez faire and bit of a muppet If we were all wise to what was out there, monopolising practices like this would NEVER work. As it is, it promotes a dumbing-down of consumers who are just lulled into an 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' mindset.

I know that people don't care because to an extent they just want to 'get on with it', but the only reason they don't care is that they don't know and have no need to find out more....if I bought a house that came with a free VW in the garage I probably wouldn't go out of my way to find out whether the garage down the road was handing out Aston Martins, because my car was perfectly adequate. Which is very sad for anyone making a better product. Especially if the knobs at VW start producing petrol that only works in their cars, if you'll permit me to extend the analogy

[Veles]

the job of "starter edition" is for developing countries, in an attempt to block adoption of linux or pirated windows (by making "legit" windows relatively affordable)

Not entirely true, it's also for people who don't want to pay the full price for vista, like someone who want's to install it on a secondary machine or just someone who can't afford all the shiny bells. I've heard it's just a 32-bit version of vista with no nice UI artwork.

So long as people clearly explain the difference between the versions of vista it will be perfectly fine.

Vista Home basic - A striped down version of vista for a more affordable price
Vista Home - Vista for the home user
Vista Home Premium - Vista Home with these lovely additions - *insert list here*
Vista Business - A version of vista with more security and networking coolness
Vista Enterprise - A really l33t version of business
Vista Ultimate - A mix of vista home premium and business

see, just a list of the basic differences and it's not confusing at all. I mean the names are pretty self explanetory really, "hmmm I'm average Joe and I want a home operating system, ooo I know I'll get enterprise edition!" not gonna happen really. Just a little list of all the major feature differences and it'll be fine.

I think enterprise will also be the most expensive, not ultimate.

[[GSV]Trig]

Lite
Home
Pro

Should stick to that tbh, lite with just the core stuff, useful for PDA's etc
Home, more media based like the current XP Media Center STB's, kiosk machines etc.
Pro, Workstation/Business machines.

[directhex]

Not entirely true, it's also for people who don't want to pay the full price for vista, like someone who want's to install it on a secondary machine or just someone who can't afford all the shiny bells. I've heard it's just a 32-bit version of vista with no nice UI artwork.

or network support, or support for more than 3 apps running at once

assuming windows starter edition (remember, it's so crippled they won't call it vista) is anything like xp starter edition

this is *purely* for the developing world, for new (oem only) desktop systems, to compete with pirated xp pro (the main competitor) or linux.

[TheAnimus]

or network support, or support for more than 3 apps running at once

assuming windows starter edition (remember, it's so crippled they won't call it vista) is anything like xp starter edition

Which if your running on a very bad proccessor is exactly whats needed.

On an embedded bored i was aruging with my lecturer (who did admit i was absolutely right in the end) that running the linux kernel with calls made it impossible with the two threads because of a lack of cache, far jumps and how paging is implemented ment that if the proccesses had the ordasity two call an API there was a horrific performance hit.

Sometimes a crippled approche is better for certain very low end (apparently that bored can be made to run on 1.5whatts!) system.

As to details of its crippled nature that depends what your doing, and for most people it won't be confusing as the nice sales person will say "this versions is crap".

[skotbites]

How can I get to to have a play with the betas??

And is vista going to be 64 bit out of the box and backwards compatible or will that be nother version?

SCott

[TheAnimus]

if your a student, odds are your uni can sort you out, if not.

MSDN subscriptions,
Technet subscriptions.

Applying way before the beta starts to register your intrest.

[skotbites]

Ok I'm not a stundent and have absolutely no idea what those other things are lol!!!

Scott