ATI Avivo Video and Display Engine - Technology Discussion

[Steve]

ATI seek to please with a next generation of video capture, display output and video controllers under the Avivo umbrella. Related to display output, Avivo fixes my whinge with a pair of dual-link DVI outputs, fitted to the low-end up (!) via two built-in TMDS transmitters, and brings the rest of the video path, from input to output, up to modern standards.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews...lld19JRD0xNjIy

[DR]

Very interesting technology...

[mull]

Right. Sounds good! My beef with capture/AV cards are these points:

1. Is there HD Component Capture on it? I know, this is confined to 10,000 dollar cards at the moment, but this is really a 'next-gen' feature, for me- being able to capture recordings of my races on PGR3 on an Xbox360/PS3, etc. Being able to get HD feeds and manipulate them. We now have the codecs, processor power and bandwitch for disssemination to deal with HD at other stages, but theres no capture solution for consumers. I assume they are also getting asked/made not to include this by content providers who don't want high quality rips of thier HD content being easily made.

2. As you have already identified, no actual forcing of ODMs to include specific connectors. This Avivia technology undoubtedly provides the technological base and therefore a big incentive to ODMs to go dual DVI, etc, but I think VGA ports will be here to stay in the mid range for a while yet- I don't recall seeig many 6600 series dual DVI cards, for example, certainly not a popular model.

3. Not truely related to this issue, coming under the All-In-Wonder team's remit, I presume; will they A: start releasing the AIW version cards closer to release of the vanilla cards and B: start getting DVB tuners in more of the cards! This is far more important for most people than analog capture, in my experience. Freeview on the PC is far more attractive than 10bit capture of VHS tapes from 1993 (which is what the vast majority of people do with analog capture).

Also, other questions- do these Dual DVI ports explicitly support HDCP and therefore Vista- I didn't explicitly see that mentioned; theres been quite a furore over people not being able to see Vista HD streams on 2405s, for example. Is this capability really new- are current ATI cards capable of outputting HDCP over DVI?

Also, while I've got your attention (if I do!), what's the absolute maximum resolution supported by Dual TDMS DVI (with a bit of blanking timing redution, like single link)? Is it 2880x1800, as in twice 1920x1200? Not beee able to find this tidbit anywhere!
And, when will be able to buy 10bit panels at affordable prices? Any clues?

Great article, don't let my overly specific questions detract!

[Rys]

1. Is there HD Component Capture on it? I know, this is confined to 10,000 dollar cards at the moment, but this is really a 'next-gen' feature, for me- being able to capture recordings of my races on PGR3 on an Xbox360/PS3, etc. Being able to get HD feeds and manipulate them. We now have the codecs, processor power and bandwitch for disssemination to deal with HD at other stages, but theres no capture solution for consumers. I assume they are also getting asked/made not to include this by content providers who don't want high quality rips of thier HD content being easily made.

I don't think ATI have any plans for HD capture via component inputs, but I'll certainly ask.

2. As you have already identified, no actual forcing of ODMs to include specific connectors. This Avivia technology undoubtedly provides the technological base and therefore a big incentive to ODMs to go dual DVI, etc, but I think VGA ports will be here to stay in the mid range for a while yet- I don't recall seeig many 6600 series dual DVI cards, for example, certainly not a popular model.

Dual-DVI passive 6600 for sub £80. No stock, but doesn't that indicate popularity? They're out there if you peek.

3. Not truely related to this issue, coming under the All-In-Wonder team's remit, I presume; will they A: start releasing the AIW version cards closer to release of the vanilla cards and B: start getting DVB tuners in more of the cards! This is far more important for most people than analog capture, in my experience. Freeview on the PC is far more attractive than 10bit capture of VHS tapes from 1993 (which is what the vast majority of people do with analog capture).

That's their goal. Digital tuning will be standard from now on and the AIW version of X1800 shouldn't be far away (certainly before Christmas I'd say) from the launch of the non-AIW version.

Also, other questions- do these Dual DVI ports explicitly support HDCP and therefore Vista- I didn't explicitly see that mentioned; theres been quite a furore over people not being able to see Vista HD streams on 2405s, for example. Is this capability really new- are current ATI cards capable of outputting HDCP over DVI?

Avivo supports DRM on the digital outputs, yeah. I'll ask about HDCP support for HD playback on current hardware.

Also, while I've got your attention (if I do!), what's the absolute maximum resolution supported by Dual TDMS DVI (with a bit of blanking timing redution, like single link)? Is it 2880x1800, as in twice 1920x1200? Not beee able to find this tidbit anywhere!

Yeah, you can double the resolution with another link. Current max seems to be 2560x1600 though (the size of the mainstream 30" LCDs), but I'll ask on that one too.

And, when will be able to buy 10bit panels at affordable prices? Any clues? Great article, don't let my overly specific questions detract!

Not really sure dude, but I'll try and do some digging. Cheers for the read + questions, good to get some feedback.

[Yoda]

Rys,

thanks for the interesting article. I think it was well balanced - easy to grasp but still full of new info (at least for me... )

One question:

Quote from the article: "HDCP is required for HD video (and audio over HDMI) display on HD-able displays, lest the Avivo engine downscale to 480p (or something else, it's unconfirmed as yet but likely 480p)."

Do you have any idea will the future ATI (AIW?)-products (or Nvidia's, for that matter) allow outputting audio over the HDMI, too?

I would think this would be a logical thing to do, as the version 1.1 of HDMI supports full-scale (hi-res, multichannel) audio over the HDCP-encryted interface.

Many PC-displays, shamefully, still lack even basic HDCP-support, but many consumer receivers and TVs already support HDMI, some of them even v.1.1. (1.0 supported only 2-ch PCM or DD/DTS-level bitstream audio over the HDMI). And as Creative and other sound card manufacturers do not seem to have any plans to use HDMI in the near future, we won't have use for the audio side of HDMI unless motherboard- or graphics-card -makers implement the audio side, too. If I've understood correctly, products based on Intel's HDA -standard would have the necessary support for all the channels etc., but I'm not certain about their DRM / HDCP -implementations. Neither have I heard any of them mentioning HDMI.

So I think (and hope) it would be logical for the graphics card makers to implement the audio side, too, when they introduce their first HDMI-products. I, for one, would not mind paying Creative nothing when I build my next HTPC, if I had the basic digital audio connections and HDMI on the video card or mobo. Would be nice to build a HTPC without the need for separate sound card, just output everything digitally to the display and sound system via a HDMI-equipped pre/pro/receiver...

Gaming is a totally different game, of course, at the moment at least.

I know that the market penetration of HDMI is not yet broad and there are many questions regarding for example which component does what in a HDMI-chain. But I think HDMI is here to stay, and I'm frustrated that I don't yet know which component will do the audio side of things.

Keep up the good work!

Wbr, Tatu