I always hear 16gb memory is an overkill - but why ?

[Willzzz]

Yeah, my old PC only had 4GB and it became unusable with a lot of tabs open.
Most of the tabs were looking for new computer parts

[jim]

Nonsense. Chrome alone uses 7GB on my system and Firefox would be at least the same again on top of that. If I wanted to leave a browser window open and do some basic image/video editing I'd be screwed.

Are you seriously suggesting that Chrome, i.e. the combined chrome.exe processes in the task manager, uses 7GB of memory?

[ik9000]

just opened 13 tabs on various website inc you tube. Hit average of 100K per tab. System running at 3GB used of 8GB total

[tavalin]

Are you seriously suggesting that Chrome, i.e. the combined chrome.exe processes in the task manager, uses 7GB of memory?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that lol'd at that post. I've only got 6GB of RAM and opening lots of tabs (like 30+) in Firefox can take up 3-4GB but 7GB sounds excessive!

[dulcificum]

Are you seriously suggesting that Chrome, i.e. the combined chrome.exe processes in the task manager, uses 7GB of memory?

Easily. With single tabs taking up well over 300 MB, it's not that hard!

e.g. with just 50-70 tabs, it's easy to go over 7GB if 10 are ~300MB and the rest are just normal ~75MB processes. These aren't even complex pages - we're just talking Gmail or YouTube.

EDIT: simple proof that I'm not pulling this out from my arse and that this is far from ridiculous (my current processes):



98% of 8GB memory used, the at least 90% of that just by a handful of Chrome windows. I usually have a Firefox window open too which if you let it easily gobbled up another 4GB with half as many tabs open and minimal extensions.

Now imagine if I wanted to do a more complicated task than browsing the web like image editing, a lightweight Linux VM, video rendering, some Java-based apps, Dragon, InDesign or something that actually hogs memory...

[robredz]

Video editing is smoother with 16Gb, in fact I am upgrading to 32Gb as soon as I can afford the sticks, makes no odds for games at the minute.

[Splash]

e.g. with just 50-70 tabs, it's easy to go over 7GB if 10 are ~300MB and the rest are just normal ~75MB processes. These aren't even complex pages - we're just talking Gmail or YouTube.

People seriously have that many tabs open at any given point? How do you find a tab in amongst all those?

[kalniel]

just 50-70 tabs

LOL I dread to think what you consider a large number of tabs then!

I would suggest sir that your usage is not typical and shouldn't inform general opinion

[shaithis]

Easily. With single tabs taking up well over 300 MB, it's not that hard!

e.g. with just 50-70 tabs

50-70 tabs? JUST? Hardly anyone opens that many tabs, including myself who spends most of the day with multiple browser sessions going.
Web browsers have become seriously bloated recently.

Now imagine if I wanted to do a more complicated task than browsing the web like image editing, a lightweight Linux VM, video rendering, some Java-based apps, Dragon, InDesign or something that actually hogs memory...

All would have worked well with 8GB, probably even 4GB. Your abusing your usage of browsers to the point where you are causing an anomaly....but hey, spend an extra £120 on RAM instead of closing some of those 70 windows you can't possibly be reading.

[dulcificum]

50-70 tabs? JUST? Hardly anyone opens that many tabs, including myself who spends most of the day with multiple browser sessions going.
Web browsers have become seriously bloated recently.

I'm happy to admit 50 is more than the average person, but it's not that extreme. You're right though - Chrome is ridiculously bloated nowadays.

Regarding the tabs, I don't think it's that much of an anomaly and will only become more common. In the modern world, the bare minimum of tabs open is about a half dozen - email, Twitter client, AirDroid, MightyText, torrent web interface, Facebook, soundcloud or maybe a YouTube upload. Maybe a couple of each. I have more than that as there are several forums, trackers, cpanels, webapps, and assorted websites I check regularly throughout the day so there's no point closing them.

Now imagine I wanted to use my web browser to actually, you know, browse the web. Something like reading a news website, searching for something on ebay, reading a Wikipedia page or even the front page of Reddit. Once you've clicked on any interesting links that's instantly 20+ new tabs spawned until you've worked through them all.

All would have worked well with 8GB, probably even 4GB. Your abusing your usage of browsers to the point where you are causing an anomaly....but hey, spend an extra £120 on RAM instead of closing some of those 70 windows you can't possibly be reading.

This is utter nonsense however. I use a Chrome extension to suspend inactive tabs so I rarely have more than those 20-30 actually active at once. But it's still enough to kill a system with an "adequate" 4GB of RAM.

And like I said - moderately-complex image editing or video editing easily eats 8GB instantly meaning you have to have completely closed down your browser windows and all other programs to do this. If you ever multitask and do either of these two, I find it hard to claim that 8GB would be enough. Try actually firing up Premiere Pro or Photoshop and loading a project and see how close they get to "working fine" on 4GB (or even 8GB).

[scaryjim]

... there are several forums, trackers, cpanels, webapps, and assorted websites I check regularly throughout the day so there's no point closing them.

So you don't think all those tabs eating the majority of your installed RAM is a reason to close them? Hpow long does it take to type the first two letters of the URL in your browser then hit return? Particularly given you presumably have to refresh the page every time you flick back to those tabs to check if there are any updates?

Now imagine I wanted to use my web browser to actually, you know, browse the web. Something like reading a news website, searching for something on ebay, reading a Wikipedia page or even the front page of Reddit. Once you've clicked on any interesting links that's instantly 20+ new tabs spawned until you've worked through them all.

Not sure what types of news you're reading or where you're reading it, but I've never seen an article with more than one or two links in it that are worth clicking. I pray no-one ever links you to TV Tropes

If you ever multitask and do either of these two, I find it hard to claim that 8GB would be enough. Try actually firing up Premiere Pro or Photoshop and loading a project and see how close they get to "working fine" on 4GB (or even 8GB).

Surely if you're "working" on an intensive program and your browser is causing you problems, you just close your browser. It's not like, with a modern browser, it won't just start up again with all the tabs you were last viewing... Your problem doesn't seem to be so much that 8GB of RAM isn't enough, but that you refuse to adapt to browsers being highly memory hungry...?

[ik9000]

I'm happy to admit 50 is more than the average person, but it's not that extreme. You're right though - Chrome is ridiculously bloated nowadays.

Regarding the tabs, I don't think it's that much of an anomaly and will only become more common. In the modern world, the bare minimum of tabs open is about a half dozen - email, Twitter client, AirDroid, MightyText, torrent web interface, Facebook, soundcloud or maybe a YouTube upload. Maybe a couple of each. I have more than that as there are several forums, trackers, cpanels, webapps, and assorted websites I check regularly throughout the day so there's no point closing them.

Now imagine I wanted to use my web browser to actually, you know, browse the web. Something like reading a news website, searching for something on ebay, reading a Wikipedia page or even the front page of Reddit. Once you've clicked on any interesting links that's instantly 20+ new tabs spawned until you've worked through them all.



This is utter nonsense however. I use a Chrome extension to suspend inactive tabs so I rarely have more than those 20-30 actually active at once. But it's still enough to kill a system with an "adequate" 4GB of RAM.

And like I said - moderately-complex image editing or video editing easily eats 8GB instantly meaning you have to have completely closed down your browser windows and all other programs to do this. If you ever multitask and do either of these two, I find it hard to claim that 8GB would be enough. Try actually firing up Premiere Pro or Photoshop and loading a project and see how close they get to "working fine" on 4GB (or even 8GB).

I use ROBOT structural analysis. It needs 4gig min to be happy. Used to use a 3GB system and it cried. But I can run robot, autocad and two browsers with several tabs in each, custom email client, office docs, photos, GIMP, and still not hit a problem all on 8GB ram. In fact unless ROBOT is doing a non-linear analysis and crunching some serious matrices I rarely get above 50% RAM use.

You have 50 tabs open, yet by your own description I can't get near it. And how about read a page, then open the next one instead of opening 20+ new tabs. Occasionally I get that far doing tech comparison or delving into review sites and cross-comparing with forums, but it's rare I need them all open. I even have to start opening multiple browser windows just to keep track. But even then I find they are average 100,000kB a page. So 50 of them if as you say, is circa 5000MB is circa 5GB. Still good for 8GB RAM even in that extraordinary scenario.

And I might have misunderstood, but in the event you need more RAM doesn't windows page a lot of the unused, older opened tabs to the swap file?

[dulcificum]

So you don't think all those tabs eating the majority of your installed RAM is a reason to close them? Hpow long does it take to type the first two letters of the URL in your browser then hit return? Particularly given you presumably have to refresh the page every time you flick back to those tabs to check if there are any updates?

Most use AJAX to constantly update and the point is most of them need to stay open for correction functionality (i.e. updates, gchats, etc.)

Not sure what types of news you're reading or where you're reading it, but I've never seen an article with more than one or two links in it that are worth clicking. I pray no-one ever links you to TV Tropes

Go to the home page of any newspaper/online news source. Or open an RSS reader. There are usually way more than 20. And places like TVTropes/cracked.com absolutely destroy me

Surely if you're "working" on an intensive program and your browser is causing you problems, you just close your browser. It's not like, with a modern browser, it won't just start up again with all the tabs you were last viewing... Your problem doesn't seem to be so much that 8GB of RAM isn't enough, but that you refuse to adapt to browsers being highly memory hungry...?

I always need web browsers to stay open to check documentation and find media to use in said editing. I would say most people using computers "need" a web browser open in the background regardless of whether they are designing/coding/VMing/whatever.

You have 50 tabs open, yet by your own description I can't get near it. And how about read a page, then open the next one instead of opening 20+ new tabs.

Not really feasible if you're reading a wikipedia article for example.

But even then I find they are average 100,000kB a page. So 50 of them if as you say, is circa 5000MB is circa 5GB. Still good for 8GB RAM even in that extraordinary scenario.

Did you see the screenshot where several had over 300MB and Chrome usage was demonstrably over 7GB?

And I might have misunderstood, but in the event you need more RAM doesn't windows page a lot of the unused, older opened tabs to the swap file?

Nope.

[peterb]

Hmm, I usually have two browsers open, with maybe 30-40 between them at various times, plus things like VLC, mail, calendars and so on, and I have 8GB ram in an OSX based system. It doesn't have a problem with that, but then I'm not using anything like Final_Cut_Pro, or transcoding.

But RAM is relatively cheap so if you think you need it, go ahead and buy it. If it isn't necessary, it won't do any harm, just a bit of a waste of cash, but in all honesty, in a high end system where it is doing serious number crunching with applications that do need it, an extra 8GB is a small proportion of the overall cost.

My linux machine ran quite happily on 2GB until I needed to run a couple of VMs, which needed an upgrade to 4GB - but that 4GB ran a couple of VMs and still didn't go into the swap file.

Modern operating systems do seem to be more efficient at memory management - but as I said, if you buy more and it isn't used, its no big deal. If you aren't sure, start with less and add it if you need more. Horses for courses.

[scaryjim]

Go to the home page of any newspaper/online news source. Or open an RSS reader. There are usually way more than 20.

And you open them all *before* you start reading them? isn't that kind of like getting a newspaper and sticking a bookmark in every page before reading it?

I open a news site homepage, I'll scan the articles on the homepage, spot the, say, three I can tell will *actually* be interesting, open 2 in the background, read the third, then skip over to the other two and read those.

if I can tell there are more than 3 I want to read, I'll simply open one, read it, hit the back button, open the next one, read it, etc. I tend to rekcon if I open more than 3 or 4 background tabs from a story there's no way I'll catch up on them all, so why bother?

I'm not really disagreeing with any of your points here, I just struggle to see how you get to 50 - 70 tabs. Or in fact how anyone would get into a habit that would encourage using that many open tabs/windows (since each tab is essentially a new instance of the browser). I can easily get up to around 20, spread over 2 browsers, and if I'm hunting an obscure bit of DOM reference or function I might hit 30. But I don't see any reason why I'd need 50 - 70 tabs open all the time. Anything very useful gets slapped into a bookmarks folder or bar somewhere I can find it if I need it, but most of the tabs I open get closed again pretty quickly. I can't imagine browsing news sites when I had something to actually work on - reference sites yes, but again those tabs would be disposed of pretty quickly if they turned out not to have the info I needed, and how many tabs do I need open that tell me how to do a particular task? Only one, really.

Still, as fascinating as your usage pattern is, I'm pretty sure it's an edge case. For the vast majorty of people, 8GB is still an excess of memory, let alone 16GB. Usage pattern is always going to determine individual cases, but OSes are getting consistently better at managing limited hardware resources.

[dulcificum]

I guess I'm easily distractable

The thing is, if I'm hunting down something on, say, stackoverflow - I'll want to open at least the first 5-10 links on google. Then, each of those might reference a couple of other functions or whatever so it quickly grows exponentially. If, during the time it takes me to go through that properly I get an email, tweet or text referencing something else - of course I'm going to go and open that up as well.

And for quickly updating site or information that needs to be absorbed in a logical fashion it's simply not possible to jump into tangents and go back again several times because you lose your train of thought or the site refreshes in the meantime. I can't imagine doing it any other way than opening everything in advance before getting started. It seems like that's the best way to keep things organised.

Still, as fascinating as your usage pattern is, I'm pretty sure it's an edge case. For the vast majorty of people, 8GB is still an excess of memory, let alone 16GB. Usage pattern is always going to determine individual cases, but OSes are getting consistently better at managing limited hardware resources.

Of course. But it's silly when people act all incredulous as though it's a physical impossibility. And remember, this is a very conservative usage scenario - clearly people saying 4GB is enough for anyone doesn't actually have to use any programs that require a lot of memory such as the examples already trotted out: VMs, graphics, video, etc. Even basic editing of a few streams of 1080p video will rinse your 4GB or your 8GB instantly and this is hardly an uncommon activity in this day and age now.