Network Storage Device

[Whatsthisdo]

Hi all

I am looking to buy a new network storage drive but I am not sure which one to get. I have listed my two favorites so far below. They are fairly similar but have a few differences. For example, the Maxtor looks to be easier to install but the NetDisk is much more secure. I just had a few questions before I pick one to buy. How important is it that the drive is secure? Are networked drives easy to hack into (I would have this plugged into a wireless network)? Does anyone have any experience with either one of these drives or if not do you have experience with a good drive that you would recommend? Thanks for your help.

NetDisk Portable 400GB External Hard Drive (NDU10-400)

Maxtor 320GB Shared Storage II (STM303204SSAB0G-RK)

[peterb]

Hi all

I am looking to buy a new network storage drive but I am not sure which one to get. I have listed my two favorites so far below. They are fairly similar but have a few differences. For example, the Maxtor looks to be easier to install but the NetDisk is much more secure. I just had a few questions before I pick one to buy. How important is it that the drive is secure? Are networked drives easy to hack into (I would have this plugged into a wireless network)? Does anyone have any experience with either one of these drives or if not do you have experience with a good drive that you would recommend? Thanks for your help.

NetDisk Portable 400GB External Hard Drive (NDU10-400)

Maxtor 320GB Shared Storage II (STM303204SSAB0G-RK)

Is this gpoing to be used on a home network? And is it being used as a backup device or for shared storage so that several computers can access the same files?

Provided you have secured your wireless network then securing the storage device is probably unnecessary unless the data you are processing makes you vulnerable to a targeted attack (in which case you shouldn't be using wireless). If yopu have particularly sensitive files, then you could encrypt those on a case by case basis. However it is probably better to spend time and effort securing the network as a whole.

Security is not just about one device on a system, it concerns system design, risk assessment and education of the users.

[Jay]

if you stretch to it get a YES box, its just a small Linux PC. This means you can upgrade the firmware to torrent etc etc. Really is a top quality product and their forums are right here on Hexus!

I got one for my network in work to store peoples "my documents" folders (Directors think its ok to have a 4 gig roaming profile!) and out of all the stuff I have in my network, DL380s, fiber routers etc etc this little £200 box is my little baby, pure class.

oh and it can also have RAID1 or RIAD 0, act as media server, itunes server and an FTP server, there is no need for a PC to do any of these tasks! Not bad for a box about the size of a Harry potter hard back!

[abeacock]

I have one of the Maxtor Shared Storage units (not the version 2) and I think it's great.
It just shows up as a member of your Windows network and you don't have to use their software to access it.

I was able to upgrade mine to a "MSS Plus" by just reflashing the firmware they are exactly the same hardware.

[med2003]

Not sure how much you want to spend and how simple you want to keep things but you could try something like the DLink DNS-323 with a couple of SATA hard drives plugged in. Like the YES box you can RAID them, have it set up as an ftp server, iTunes server etc. etc. Or if you're feeling more adventurous go for an NSLU2 (it'd need 1 or 2 USB external hard drives), which has a huge user community writing programs for it, but you'd need a little more technical nous for that.

Security wise if you're plugging in to your wireless router then make sure the router is secured both for it's wireless set up and if it has a firewall make sure that's set up properly too.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

has med said try the nslu2. its basicly a mini linux pc where u can connect your ext hdd, usb printer or even a camera on it.

its very difficult to use has it requires alot of learning. till this day i am stll trying to figure out how to run torrents off it lol

[Whatsthisdo]

I was just planning to use it to store music and movies as well as back up my work files. I dont do anything top secret but it would be better if these files werent stolen, so I think I will go with the more secure drive. I will post on here later to let you know how well it works. Thanks for all the info!

[roddines]

BE CAREFUL You have specified two very different device types here in your list.

The NDU10-400 is an NDAS (Network Direct Attached Storage) device
The STM303204SSAB0G-RK is NAS (Network Attached Storage) device

It is easy and common for people to confuse these two technologies but they are very different.

See here: http://www.ximeta.com/web/technology...logie10_en.php

The best way to think of a NDAS drive is that it pretty much like an external USB 2.0/Firewire/SATA(eSATA) hard drive. All these technologies have maximum lead lengths of 2 to 5 metres but the NDAS drive has the added ability to have a very long lead (ie the Ethernet/Homeplug network up to 200 metres). Plus you can have any number of PC's on that network be able to read from it, but only one in charge of writing to it. Also you can RAID Mirror them with the drives physically being seperated by a long distance if need be for disaster recovery.

The best way to think of a NAS drive is to think of an old Linux PC with a network card and a large hard drive attached to it. With SMP NFS, FTP, Web Server and soemtimes other software added to it. That is really what they are.

The Netdisk NDU10-400 is a product from Ximeta the original owners of the NDAS standard. And as such is an NDAS device and is not a mini linux pc NAS device as others have described.

I use NDAS drives all the time for backup as they are totally secure and fast. They use a proprietry network protocol that is not routable over the internet. They also have the advantage of being MUCH faster (up to 10 times faster in my experience which is important for backup and streaming) than those tiny underpowered Linux/FTP/NFS (PC) NAS devices that are also vulenrable to IP security issues etc. They are pretty useless for backup and large file transfers (streaming) but have their niche in file sharing capabilities (and sometimes software extensibility). Based on my experience I personally I would never buy another NAS device as I would rather run a small PC (maybe a ITX or Nano-ITX based system if size is an issue) with a normal hard drive or an NDAS device attached to it. NAS performance has only ever dissappointed me while NDAS has surprised me and for backup you can't beat it.

To be fair I will list the 4 main downsides/gotchas of NDAS:

The 1st down side of NDAS is that the hard drive device is essentially controlled (for Write Access) buy just 1 PC at any one time (that PC can then share the drive if required using normal file sharing protocols such as SMB and FTP but if that PC is not switched on, then you can't access the files easilly from other devices without having to add or change your connection to the drive from a Read-Only to a Write/Read mode (which is not hard if the driver is already installed).

The 2nd down side is you need to load a special driver on the PC's that want to have direct access to the NDAS drive(s). They have well tested and stable Windows and MAC drivers. But currently are only in Beta with Linux drivers. Also it is unlikely that other embedded hardware devices such as streaming media and network media players would currently have direct access to the NDAS drive as they would lack the built in driver (but I guess once the Linux drivers are freely available that will begin to change for future Linux based embedded devices even ironically other NAS's).

The 3rd is you have to be on the same physical Ethernet network to be able to connect to it (this is also a plus for security) thus it is useless for remote access without the file sharing capabilities of another PC providing that (NAS like) service.

The 4th is the drive is not intelligent i.e. it is not a PC with an operating system like the NAS devices running a timy PC with Linux on them (this is also a plus for security and to minimise complexity which is good for backup and recovery scenarios).

NDAS drives are brilliant for backup purposes especially for one server or PC due to the speed and security . They also offer a USB 2.0 connection for easy recovery without any drivers. If you combine them with a Homeplug powerline based networking device they are great to hide away is some cupboard at the other end of a building where a thief (targeting your computer gear) is unlikely to ever look or find them. Similarly for fire protection they can be located at opposite ends of your building or even in another building. You can even have two of them in different physical locations working through the driver as a RAID 1 mirrored pair.

I often use the new Akasa AK-ENP2NDAS-BK (BK=Black) case and add my own IDE 500GB, 750GB or 1TB drives to them.
http://www.akasa.co.uk/akasa_english...enp2lan_bk.htm
Be careful if you go this route as some of the older AK-ENP2NDAS-BL (BL=Blue) cases which are more common and usually has an older NDAS v1 chip on it and is only compatible with up to 400GB drives (you see these ones on ebay regularly).

Misco sell both the newer ones with the NDAS v2 chip, but the newly released BK model is still only available by phone order (not currently on their web site) for about £45+VAT. Add a Western Digitial 500GB IDE hard drive from Ebuyer (Misco are expensive on drives) for £55+VAT and your good to go. Note: Make sure it is an IDE drive you order!

Note if you are building one make sure you format the drive (NTFS usually) after building the NDAS device and not before as the NDAS system needs to reserve a little space at the end of the drive for its settings etc. This will not stop the drive being removed and fitted directly into any PC for recovery purposes. Note you can't usually do that with NAS drives as they are usually formatted with a Linux file system.

Further I suspect the 400GB Netdisk NDU10-400 you specificed is using the old NDAS v1 chip and thus will not be upgradeable to a larger hard drive in future. I recently tried this on a Freecom Classic NL Network Drive NDAS drive and it didn't work for this reason.

I hope that helps you or somone else!

[roddines]

Scan now have the NDAS cases too and at a better price than Misco..
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=466106 @ £41 (inc VAT)

Add one of these:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=644048 = 500GB @ £55 (inc VAT)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=395951 = 750GB @ £147 (inc VAT)

[peterb]

. This will not stop the drive being removed and fitted directly into any PC for recovery purposes. Note you can't usually do that with NAS drives as they are usually formatted with a Linux file system.

Just being a tad picky, you can of course attach a disk that has been formatted with an ext2/3 file system (the common Linux FS) to a PC and read it after booting with a Live CD (Knoppix/Ubuntu/Fedora or whatever) The files can then be copied to FAT system, or with some distros, and NTFS system, for disaster recovery.

Personally I would rather use a NAS system with open standards than a NDAS device with closed protocols, but Roddines has provided an excellent (and fair!) description of the two.

[Jay]

I may be selling my DL380 G1 rack server. I used it as a NAS by connecting External USB disks to it. I also used it for terminal services to get my desktop anywhere, FTP Server, openfire server (spark client has IM, VOIP etc for me and my friends), HD Media server to stream HD films around my house, Torrent downloads etc

It did the job very well untill I just upgraded

[Whatsthisdo]

I just wanted to say thanks again for all the good info and to give you guys an update on what I did.

I chose the NetDisk storage device being sold by J&R Music and Computer (not trying to plug J&R just saying where I got it from) right now. Anyways, it works great so far. I moved all my movies and music onto it since my desktop’s hard drives were getting to full. Now I can access all of the movies and music from my desktop or laptop from anywhere in the apartment as long as they are connected to my network. The movies stream in just fine under the wireless connection. The only problem I have noticed so far is that my computer doesn’t always pick up the drive over wireless. This is pretty easily solved by just mounting the drive again, which takes about 3 minutes.

If you are in the market for something like this then I suggest you at least look at this one. The name and model number is below.

Klegg Electronics KNDM-250 Netdisk Mega 250GB External Hard Drive

[richardgill]

This detailed reply from RODDINES was really helpful but I need further help on NAS or NDAS

I run a small mac wireless home network of 5 machines running from a USRobotics 9106 router. I have a lacie firewire drive connected directly to my PowerBook G4 which I use for backup but want to install a new wireless router (this one has an intermittent fault) with a hard drive directly attached to the router so that all users can backup and so that we can share data rather than store the same stuff on each machine. Currently if I take my PB out of the network for remote meetings etc. nobody can access the drive I have attached. I presume this is NAS and that a drive attached to the router would be NDAS. If I want to set up NDAS would this be better through ethernet or can I a get a wireless router with a firewire port and then install a firewire drive - or does it all come down to the max router transfer speed which I presume is 100mbit. If this is the case can anyone (RODDINES ?) suggest a wireless router and a hard drive that I can connect to it to use as NDAS. Am I misunderstanding the function of NAS or NDAS if I want all users to have access independently and should I instead have a server and use this for file sharing and backup?

Thanks for any help

[peterb]

Your powerbook and the attchaed drive together are acting as a network attached storage device - in other words the PB is acting as file server. If you can attach an external hard drive to a router (ands it would almost certainly be USB, not firewire) you would again be using the router as a file server.

If I understood Roddines's explanation correctly, the main distinguishing characteristic of NDAS is that the rtransfer protocols are proprietary, and some form of client software is required on the PCs attached to the the network.

I'm not sure which routers will act in the manner you require, you might be better with a separate NAS device such as the Linksys NSLU2 or orther small file server devices.

[Sinizter]

Which Thecus device allows torrenting on it ?

[roddines]

This detailed reply from RODDINES was really helpful but I need further help on NAS or NDAS

I run a small mac wireless home network of 5 machines running from a USRobotics 9106 router. I have a lacie firewire drive connected directly to my PowerBook G4 which I use for backup but want to install a new wireless router (this one has an intermittent fault) with a hard drive directly attached to the router so that all users can backup and so that we can share data rather than store the same stuff on each machine. Currently if I take my PB out of the network for remote meetings etc. nobody can access the drive I have attached. I presume this is NAS and that a drive attached to the router would be NDAS. If I want to set up NDAS would this be better through ethernet or can I a get a wireless router with a firewire port and then install a firewire drive - or does it all come down to the max router transfer speed which I presume is 100mbit. If this is the case can anyone (RODDINES ?) suggest a wireless router and a hard drive that I can connect to it to use as NDAS. Am I misunderstanding the function of NAS or NDAS if I want all users to have access independently and should I instead have a server and use this for file sharing and backup?

Thanks for any help

Hi Richard:

The key to solving your IT problem with the appropriate products here is to first fully undertsand what you need to do/acheive(from a bsuiness perspective) today and where you intend on being in the next year or so (IT products/solutions rarely have lives of longer than 3 to 4 years these days). Some key questions needing answering before any recommendation could be made are:

Are all five user working at the same time?

What kind of files are you sharing? Just Office documents or large files?

Are all 5 computers MAC's/Powerbooks? For what reason do you use Mac rather than PC? This may seem irrelevant but usually it is not. Often it points to a desire to avoid complex technology and focus on usability rather say performance or complex functionality.

Are you prepared to learn to administer a Server? If yes would you prefer Linux/Windows or some Apple solution? If not are you prepared to pay somone else to support one for you?

How do you see backup? Are you essentially wanting to use the NAS type device to backup the local PC/Mac or are you wanting to have a central storage for sharing files plus another additional device for centralised backup? Do you have a desire or legal requirement for offsite backup to overcome or avoid fire and theft problems?

What are the broad types of business being undertaken?

What speed of Internet connection do you have and technology? ie 8mb ADSL or 20mb Virgin Cable?

It would seem from your reply that you have grasped most of the ideas of NDAS and NAS but have some small confusion. And PeterB has gone some way to try and explain that. Essential an NDAS device is not much different to the Lacie Firewire drive you have already. The only real difference would be that it could take advantage of extended cabling over Ethernet assuming you have that (alternative Homeplug/powerline networking is uselful here too), which may allow for out of site (and out of theft range and possiby fire range). Additionally an NDAS device would allow the other users to have READ only access to the drive even if the PB was not on the network. And optionaly one of them could be re-assigned Read/Write access while your away. However that would not appear to be an idela solution to what appears to be your problem of secure sharing of files when your PB as not on the network. It is essentially currently acting as a Peer-to-Peer server on your network (LAN). But when it goes walkies no files are available for other users even though the Lacie drive is still there.

An USB or firewire (less likely) hard drive attached to an NAS style Router may be useful but they are not ideal either as they are usually under powerred Linux devices that cannot typically sustain the desired performance required by most but the simplest of networks. There may be some heavy duty ones but I doubt it as generally speaking any device that has combined/shared functionality is usually a price/performance compromise on seperate devices doing the different tasks. ie seperate Router, Wireless Acces Point, File Server (or NAS) will almost always be the only way to get the appropriate performance/price point you need for each area.

If you like you can try call me to discuss the issues on 07876025797

Regards, Rod.