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About LinkBacksFrom what I have seen they are simply teaming areas of the network to give them the speed. its not going to be good for the already overloaded areas ubr08 for example.Originally Posted by Agent
From what I have seen they are simply teaming areas of the network to give them the speed. its not going to be good for the already overloaded areas ubr08 for example.
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@Jay
Wrong mate. The resegmentation that is happening as an ongoing thing, will take some of the load off your overloaded ubr08 (Which ubr08 though? there's one in every hubsite, along with a ubr09 and ubr10 and great many of their other ubr chums. Think of a hubsite as an exchange if you like) and share it with a brand new ubr. Ubr load is closely monitored and those above a certain threshold are flagged for resegmentation. (Big job, but it is happening day to day
This is why i think your problems had other causes mate. Your ubr may overloaded but I can't see it being responsible for all your issues.
I have been wrong before though and I rusty on RF and access network.
@All
Don't forget that the cable network is an HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) RF system, comprising of optical stages, amplifiers, more amplifiers matrixes/combiners to name but a few. When commissioned and performing within specifications it is capable of carrying an astonishing amount of services, broadband being just one. However, if out of spec it can become a frustrating and disappointing monster. Signal levels may look fine but the MER (which can only be read on an engineers test meter) could be poo.
ADSL by contrast is carried over a single passive copper pair from exchange to house. Still a nightmare to find partial conditions and stray voltage etc. but inherently linear progressio.
Don't get me wrong I'm not making excuses for it being set up wonky or saying one is better. But it should all work and be set up correctly. If you pay for a service then you should receive it. (Please don't bombard me with stories of how bad you have been treated, remember I am also a customer too)
What I am saying is don't assume instantly that a higher ping is down to throttling because some eeedjit on another forum says so, but can't in any way substantiate.
Or that you are being traffic shaped by a sinister monster because last night your Asian Babes torrent downloaded at 10mb But tonights epic, Grannys Go Wild is only limping in at 56kb. Torrents, as we all know are p2p and as such speeds can fluctuate massively.
If you really do think something is wrong, phone up, get an Engineer out, they really are pretty good now. I know about the Indian call centre thing and poor tech support thing, but as a word of advice before you phone up about just the broadband, make sure you check out all your services, I mean your TV will probably be freezing and blocking too, or maybe your phone gets crackly when it rainsIf it doesn't get fixed by the engineer at first visit ask why, it may have to go to a network engineer which can take a day or so, and may not require a visit. But if you aren't happy then complain and escalate your issues.
/rant on
Throttling is and always will be a really thorny issue and my views are unimportant at this time. Save to say i view it as a necessary evil.
VM actually openly and publicly, explain their TS policy better than most ISP;s IMHO. But, if you can't be arsed to read it, don't make up your own imaginary version as you go. Why oh why would there be a secret conspiracy to covertly throttle even more. What would that serve? Think of all the bad publicity! Oh hang on maybe I've hit the nail on the head there!
I love it when I see comments about the VM core network not being up to the job or it needs more money spending on it. WTF? Wrong!
/rant off
On a side topic, what genuinely surprises me is that very few users of broadband in general moan about upload speeds. Gamers especially...
Please don't think that I am in anyway making excuses for VM or that I am biased because I work for them. I am also a paying customer. I am only trying to offer some practical understanding.
Disclaimer To cover my backside due to bad people posting stuff off the VM intranet in the past (rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish):: This post is purely my words and opinions and not that of VM and nothing I have stated above can be construed as a trade secret or inside information. Nothing in this post has been copied from VM Intranet. Nothing I have typed here may be copied, duplicated, quoted or re-posted for any purpose without my express written permission.
That said, I am willing to offer assistance and advice on technical issues where I can.
Last edited by jamin; 18-10-2008 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Me no tipe gud!
Beer is life, life is good!
UBR8 knowsley
It has to be an issue outside of my house. I have replaced everything and tried more than one system and the issues are still there, even direct to the modem is the same.
.....and what you are saying is all well and good but the issue is that the current level of service is shocking.
I don't think that its anything to do with anything other than an over subscribed area, and that to me is a disgrace and could be classed as fraud, “up to 20Mb”.... but if I never get 20Mb then its not “up to 20Mb” at all. I did a little test and called VM and asked to sign up to their 20Mb service, I gave my friends post code 2 doors away etc and they said “yes, that is no problem.” Even though they know that our UBR is already oversubscribed and can’t deliver 20Mb. Why would they knowingly take money for a service they know they can’t really deliver?
Anyway, I am ditching VM after 6 years (ex Telewest) and that includes their V+ "HD" service and their Telephone.
Last edited by Jay; 19-10-2008 at 02:18 AM.
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Fair enough, was only trying to offer up some experience to help isolate the problem. And clear up some rubbish rumour-mongering. As I said mate, I don't make excuses for the service level.
Beer is life, life is good!
@ Jamin
I find you slightly patronising, but maybe that's just because of my frustration with my service or i've read your points wrong.
To answer you, I really love it when people come back at you with their "out in the open" policy, that anyone can read. Sure the policy is there in black and white, but have you also read the line regarding what vm regard as heavy users? It's very ambiguous and in plain english, it basically reads "We can pretty much do what we see fit to throttling what we regard heavy users".
The fact of the matter is, I have read that policy thoroughly and sadly (in this day and age) it's been a way of life determining what I download, and what I do on my EXTREEEEEEEE LARGEEEEEEE connection.
Regarding your point about people being stupid and wildly pissing into the wind, without a logical reason... I have kept logs and I have monitored speeds, on a day to day basis. I have also kept my download below the specified threshold level by 500MB, and I get the same thing everyday. At around 5-6:30pm (When everyone comes home from work, it would seem), the bandwidth skyrockets down, and the gaming pings are seriously effected. It's not really the ping that makes the difference, its the amount of lost packets. It's dropping packets like there's no tomorrow!
Here's a typical ping I see everyday:
I have around 3-4 of them in a log everyday for the past 2 weeks. It always kicks in about the times I have specified. It's pretty obvious what conclusions you can draw from my data! I won't make any here, of course.
Just as a side note, I have tested this on a VM connection that I am 99% positive isn't being throttled, and it's EXACTLY the same.
spac3d where are you located? By the looks of the service you are getting I am guessing the Merseyside area around Liverpool, Prescot, Hyton, St Helens.
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I'm located on the Smithdown hub mate.. Wavertree area
Virgin Media was great until all the students came back..
4:30pm on a monday afternoon, haha!
Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.253.67] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=145ms TTL=118
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=151ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=149ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=141ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=149ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=147ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=159ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=148ms TTL=118
Reply from 212.58.253.67: bytes=32 time=157ms TTL=118
Ping statistics for 212.58.253.67:
Packets: Sent = 15, Received = 13, Lost = 2 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 131ms, Maximum = 165ms, Average = 150ms
Control-C
^C
I:\Users\Administrator>ping www.multiplay.co.uk -t
Pinging core1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.22] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=143ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=145ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=176ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=147ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=156ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=126ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=153ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=127ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.96.22: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=119
Ping statistics for 85.236.96.22:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 126ms, Maximum = 176ms, Average = 148ms
Control-C
^C
that really is poor. I would get onto them about that, that is a serious service issue.
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Already have done and spend alot of time and frustration on the phone to technical support. They really don't listen when you tell them that you have tried all the "standard procedural" rubbish they ask. So I ordered a BT line today, and will cancel VM very shortly.
It's a problem in the whole of this area, i'm sure of it
OMG! Spac3d, there really is no need to twist my words in that manner. I'm hoping that you really have read my points wrong. I really do need to point out that your posts in this thread have some significant contradictions which I won't go into here.
Sigh! I've re-read my post and can't see where I patronised anyone, nor was it my intention to do so. I did however try to suggest that the original quote in your first post was garbage from another forum (Which to be fair needs to be read in context with the 28 pages of discussion that follow it) I still feel the same and stand by this opinion.
Oh come on, don't insult me. I never at any point called anyone stupid. But I have to admit that although you twisted my words, "pissing in the wind" is a fair way to summarize what you did when you thought up the title and posted the initial content of this thread.
To make it clear, this is not meant as an insullt, it is an observation.
You have an obvious fault with your service as did Jay, you pings are pants and the packet loss is unacceptable. I offered up some advice and experience in the hope it may be useful/helpful. I even suggested what to say when reporting a fault to get an engineer out. If you want to take my advice, fine, happy days. If you want to vent your frustration because you have been messed around then go nuts, but don't direct it at me!
[/discuss]
Beer is life, life is good!
He's anything but patronising
Seems like a top guy. And that Allot rumour was quite old and was quashed (Oh and it was started by Traxdata who isn't exactly an official source, just claims to know people)
I apologise jamin. From my end it's very very strange that the pings just tend to sky rocket between designated hours and are always in the same band (5-3am), 160-180, funnily enough always 157-158.
not long until I have totaly got rid of all VM services!!
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Sorry to jump the thread, but what then is the current opinion on VM? I'll be moving into my first place on Saturday and obviously want broadband. This package looks good but I'm not sure as I remember a while ago people said virgin were crap. I won't be gaming really so pings aren't much of an issue, I just want to know about the service on the whole. I'll be living in Finsbury Park in London if that makes any difference to how good the service would be.
Cheers
Last edited by htid; 29-10-2008 at 03:03 PM.
You only have to read the threads on this site to see that a lot of people are having issues with them.
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