Orange Ping Spikes in the evening!?!?

[Mit321]

I'm with Orange as an ISP and a few months had a bit of a problem with pings in COD, so I thought I might get onto them about my speed upgrade which should have gone through about 3 years earlier! Basically I had been on a fixed 2mb service when the package was upgraded to 8 meg max rather than 2, I was told that I could get 8 meg and yet when I kept trying to get them to upgrade me they would say that I can only 2 meg and yet Customer Service was telling me I should be getting 8 meg, at the time I kinda gave up as I was going in circles. 2 years later, after literally about 4 hours of phone conversations a customer service rep (not even a techincal support one!) found that on one of their systems they had accidently left me on IPS Fixed (Not sure of excact terminology but it sounded like that) rather than being upgraded to IPS Max like on all the other systems, this meant recently I was upgraded from 2mb to near 8mb, was very happy with this as I live about 50 yards from my exchange I am getting about 7 meg and so have no qualms with download and upload speed.

But my Pings failed to really change at all when everyone else in the server is on a full bar connection or close to mine would be a solid 3 bar (about 70-90ms on Speedtest on Computer, as I play COD on a console), now I can't really complain about that but ocassionally (say every 3 weeks for about 3 or 4 days) I would get quite consistent lag spikes where my ping would jump up every 10 seconds or so. Thought my router might be dying and that still might be a possibility but theres a distinct correlation between the time of day and the bad pings. As I write this right now (12:40 AM) on http://www.pingtest.net/ I'm getting an excellent ( well excellent for me) ping of around 45ms, no packet loss and and about 1ms jitter. Earlier from around 5pm onwards, my ping was jumping up to about 300ms and then down to 100 and so on consistently (my packet loss was still 0% thankfully) which pretty much makes online game unplayable.

I know it could be my Netgear DG834GT router which i've had for about 3 years but I've reset it when the lag spikes start and that doesn't seem to change anything. Seems to be like it might be an Orange problem? I rung them up and all the "helpful" techincal support guy could tell me was that you can't expect and non-fluctuating ping esepcially in peak times. Of course I accept that yet my ping is fluctuating by about 300ms! Surely that is not acceptable? Also, it is not every evening but will randomly come back after some weeks of being absent. Anyone else expierenced this/have any solutions?

Thanks for all help.

[Mit321]

Anyone have any idea about this?

[Mit321]

Bump- Found out interleaving is on my line even though I live about 50 yards from my exchange and have good line stats. I ring orange tech support to get them to take it off yet they say that their system says its off yet via my router and telnet in the command prompt I can see quite clearly that it is on?

[Mit321]

Ok, It seems like nobody has any idea what im on about or how to help fix the problem but im beginning to think ping fluctuations might be because of my isp. Heres a tracert, if anyone could help me interpret it?

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.251.195]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 37 ms 36 ms 37 ms 217.47.109.58
3 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms 217.47.108.161
4 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms 213.1.67.22
5 42 ms 43 ms 41 ms 213.1.67.249
6 43 ms 42 ms 43 ms 87.237.20.240
7 43 ms 42 ms 42 ms bundle-ether1.lontr1.London.opentransit.net [193
.251.255.101]
8 51 ms 106 ms 50 ms xe-8-0-0.edge3.London1.level3.net [4.68.111.65]

9 122 ms 204 ms 221 ms ae-24-52.car3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.100]

10 68 ms 43 ms 42 ms 195.50.90.190
11 44 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.238.129
12 43 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.239.58
13 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms www-vip.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.195]

Trace complete.

[Mit321]

If aynone can help fix this I will be there personal slave forever

Hi, I live about 50yds from my exchange and have very good line stats. I'm on Orange as an ISP. Without ping fluctuations I notice on Ping test my Ping is higher (70ms to the same close UK server when freinds are about 30ms) than alot of other people I know. But at least it was consistent. I also found out there is Interleaving on my line which I have asked to have removed because that apparently can increase pings and I really dont think my line should need it? Also especially from around 3pm till 11pm (suggests ISP fault!?!?) I get really annoying ping fluctuations ontop of my already mediocre but usually stable ping making games like Call of Duty virtually unplayable (will go from 3 green bars to red and shoot back up again within about 10 seconds). This is on my PS3 but ive tried it on my PC when this happens and pingtest.net finds massive jitter (about 300ms) during this time (usually jitter of about 1ms!)

How can I find out what it is? I did a tracert but now its past midnight not sure if it helps?

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.251.195]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 37 ms 36 ms 37 ms 217.47.109.58
3 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms 217.47.108.161
4 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms 213.1.67.22
5 42 ms 43 ms 41 ms 213.1.67.249
6 43 ms 42 ms 43 ms 87.237.20.240
7 43 ms 42 ms 42 ms bundle-ether1.lontr1.London.opentransit.net [193
.251.255.101]
8 51 ms 106 ms 50 ms xe-8-0-0.edge3.London1.level3.net [4.68.111.65]

9 122 ms 204 ms 221 ms ae-24-52.car3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.100]

10 68 ms 43 ms 42 ms 195.50.90.190
11 44 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.238.129
12 43 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.239.58
13 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms www-vip.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.195]

Trace complete.

Any help would be sooo much appreicated

[peterb]

<---snip

But my Pings failed to really change at all when everyone else in the server is on a full bar connection or close to mine would be a solid 3 bar (about 70-90ms on Speedtest on Computer, as I play COD on a console), now I can't really complain about that but ocassionally (say every 3 weeks for about 3 or 4 days) I would get quite consistent lag spikes where my ping would jump up every 10 seconds or so. Thought my router might be dying and that still might be a possibility but theres a distinct correlation between the time of day and the bad pings. As I write this right now (12:40 AM) on http://www.pingtest.net/ I'm getting an excellent ( well excellent for me) ping of around 45ms, no packet loss and and about 1ms jitter. Earlier from around 5pm onwards, my ping was jumping up to about 300ms and then down to 100 and so on consistently (my packet loss was still 0% thankfully) which pretty much makes online game unplayable.

I know it could be my Netgear DG834GT router which i've had for about 3 years but I've reset it when the lag spikes start and that doesn't seem to change anything. Seems to be like it might be an Orange problem? I rung them up and all the "helpful" techincal support guy could tell me was that you can't expect and non-fluctuating ping esepcially in peak times. Of course I accept that yet my ping is fluctuating by about 300ms! Surely that is not acceptable? Also, it is not every evening but will randomly come back after some weeks of being absent. Anyone else expierenced this/have any solutions?

Thanks for all help.

A high speed doesn't necessariy equate to a low latency (ping time) - which is the time taken for an ICMP packet to traverse the network and back again. ICMP packets are normally low priority anyway, so on a congested network will be delayed (or lost)

Bump- Found out interleaving is on my line even though I live about 50 yards from my exchange and have good line stats. I ring orange tech support to get them to take it off yet they say that their system says its off yet via my router and telnet in the command prompt I can see quite clearly that it is on?

If you are convinced that interleaving really is on, you will need to keep on at Orange to check. The CS rep you spoke to might only be looking at the account records, not the actual technical set up, so if you may need to get them to escalate this to BT Openreach (unless you are on an LLU exchange and Orange has a point of presence there.)

Ok, It seems like nobody has any idea what im on about or how to help fix the problem but im beginning to think ping fluctuations might be because of my isp. Heres a tracert, if anyone could help me interpret it?

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.251.195]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 37 ms 36 ms 37 ms 217.47.109.58
3 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms 217.47.108.161
4 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms 213.1.67.22
5 42 ms 43 ms 41 ms 213.1.67.249
6 43 ms 42 ms 43 ms 87.237.20.240
7 43 ms 42 ms 42 ms bundle-ether1.lontr1.London.opentransit.net [193
.251.255.101]
8 51 ms 106 ms 50 ms xe-8-0-0.edge3.London1.level3.net [4.68.111.65]

9 122 ms 204 ms 221 ms ae-24-52.car3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.100]

10 68 ms 43 ms 42 ms 195.50.90.190
11 44 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.238.129
12 43 ms 43 ms 42 ms 212.58.239.58
13 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms www-vip.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.195]

Trace complete.

Basically, this is measuring the path between each nod in the path to the chosen target IP address. This path will vary between packets and between different IP addresses. (TCP?IP is a connectionless protocol)

To determine what is going on. you need to resolve each IP address to see who 'owns' it, but it looks as if the congestion (for this path) is round the London network (which I suspect is the LINX organisation on London - but I haven't done any work to verify that!)

Few - if any - ISPs give gurantees about latency - there are too many factors outside their control. However the fact that latency increases in the evenings suggests network congestionsomewhere on ythe path to your game server - or could be slow down of the game server itself.

[Mit321]

A high speed doesn't necessariy equate to a low latency (ping time) - which is the time taken for an ICMP packet to traverse the network and back again. ICMP packets are normally low priority anyway, so on a congested network will be delayed (or lost)



If you are convinced that interleaving really is on, you will need to keep on at Orange to check. The CS rep you spoke to might only be looking at the account records, not the actual technical set up, so if you may need to get them to escalate this to BT Openreach (unless you are on an LLU exchange and Orange has a point of presence there.)



Basically, this is measuring the path between each nod in the path to the chosen target IP address. This path will vary between packets and between different IP addresses. (TCP?IP is a connectionless protocol)

To determine what is going on. you need to resolve each IP address to see who 'owns' it, but it looks as if the congestion (for this path) is round the London network (which I suspect is the LINX organisation on London - but I haven't done any work to verify that!)

Few - if any - ISPs give gurantees about latency - there are too many factors outside their control. However the fact that latency increases in the evenings suggests network congestionsomewhere on ythe path to your game server - or could be slow down of the game server itself.

COD is a p2p game. Obviously this in itself will give highly fluctuating pings. But plenty of my freinds who live near me get full bar connections (4 bar) on ISPs like BT whereas with Orange I only get a 3 (this may be lniked to interleaving) but on top of this around peak times I also get this massive ping fluctuation which none of my other freinds get. So, if I swapped ISP surely I would not get these ping fluctuations either?

[peterb]

COD is a p2p game. Obviously this in itself will give highly fluctuating pings. But plenty of my freinds who live near me get full bar connections (4 bar) on ISPs like BT whereas with Orange I only get a 3 (this may be lniked to interleaving) but on top of this around peak times I also get this massive ping fluctuation which none of my other freinds get. So, if I swapped ISP surely I would not get these ping fluctuations either?

Are they on the same exchange as you? Although the fact that it is P2P doesn't necessarily mean thgat it will be a shorter path, esp[ecially if they are on a different ISP. However using tracert to one of them might be instructive.

Whether or not changing ISP will give any benefit is hard to predict - only way to find out for certain is to change.

[Mit321]

Are they on the same exchange as you? Although the fact that it is P2P doesn't necessarily mean thgat it will be a shorter path, esp[ecially if they are on a different ISP. However using tracert to one of them might be instructive.

Whether or not changing ISP will give any benefit is hard to predict - only way to find out for certain is to change.

Nope, are you suggesting that it might be my exchange? Its 2 issues annoying me here, one is the fact my stable ping is quite high and the other about the ping fluctuations which only come around evening time. Surely by switching ISP if other people from near where I live aren't experieincing ping fluctuations then neither will I if it really is to do with the way Orange are routing their traffic?

[peterb]

The high stable pings are more likely to be ISP related (depending on their network), the fluctuation could be ISP related (if their network is being overloaded) or it could be exchange/location related if there is something causing interference on the line in the eveneing. Depending on your router, you may be able to get line stats (SNR) etc, and compare daytime values with evening values.

[Mit321]

This is now 4:15pm so starting to reach peak time:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 8.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 11.3 db 22.0 db

Not getting any ping fluctuations at this time.

Does that Noise Margin stuff give you anything? My Line Attenuation seems to be good, and I remember checking that at a different time and it was pretty much the same.

[Mit321]

Also here is a ping test on the best UK server it can find alot of the ones it tired are often about 70 something- 90 something ms

[Mit321]

Just using a different nearby server which my freinds (albeit on another exhange) whos with BT gets a ping of 40. I'm getting a pung of over 80. Also if u run the tests a few times you will get that fluctuation showing up in the jitter. My Line stats are pretty much the same as before. Only downstream noise margin has increased

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 8.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 12.1 db 22.0 db

[Mit321]

On the Coventry Server above I did a tracert and it seems like Ping stays low untill London and then almost doubles. This is not do with the ping fluctuation just my normal ping. Why can't my normal ping at least be good regardless of fluctuation??

Tracing route to www.warwicknet.com [94.125.132.25]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 37 ms 36 ms 35 ms 217.47.109.58
3 37 ms 37 ms 37 ms 217.47.109.161
4 42 ms 43 ms 41 ms 213.1.67.18
5 43 ms 42 ms 41 ms 87.237.20.240
6 42 ms 42 ms 41 ms bundle-ether1.lontr1.London.opentransit.net [19
.251.255.101]
7 41 ms 42 ms 42 ms te1-1.lonse1.London.opentransit.net [193.251.12
.70]
8 75 ms 74 ms 74 ms gi9-40.mpd01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.
5.133]
9 74 ms 73 ms 74 ms te3-1.mpd02.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.2
26]
10 79 ms 78 ms 77 ms te3-3.ccr02.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.4
.154]
11 74 ms 79 ms 81 ms te2-3.mpd01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.5
.118]
12 79 ms 78 ms 78 ms 149.6.148.102
13 86 ms 85 ms 85 ms ge0-250.uwsp-router1.warwick.net.uk [94.125.133
3]
14 86 ms 85 ms 86 ms smtp.warwicknet.com [94.125.132.25]

[peterb]

In that case I would tend to suspect that the problem lies within Orange's network.

[Mit321]

In that case I would tend to suspect that the problem lies within Orange's network.

If anything that cheers me up because I can just switch rather than going through the fag of getting an engineer out to test line etc. Is there any way I can defintley check its orange and not me/exchange? Anyone else here on Orange?