Anyone imported a laptop from USA before? Great prices atm

[mrsobvious]

I used to use myus.com for shopping in the states. They give you a unique US address and will do the purchase themselves. They also let you specify your own customs details re value etc :S

[Powderhound]

I haven't looked at he site quoted, but it's typical for most US stores to quote prices excluding sales tax because, at least in theory, even ordering out-of-state you should (or it used to be the case that you should, unless it's changed) pay local sales tax. In any event, make sure that that price quoted is the final price, and you aren't going to get sales tax (about 6% is common) added on top.


Also, re: the warranty, make sure it's a legit US product, not a grey import to the US. Certainly with many photographic products, big stores import from non-US sources, and offer their own store warranty. If they're doing that, you'd not only have to get it back to the US for warranty, but to that store ....assuming they're still trading.

Given the price, it's tempting I know. But personally, it's not worth the risk or the potential hassle. Instead, wait a few months for the price to drop and buy it here.

Or go self-employed, register for VAT and then claim the VAT back.

And get into even bigger trouble with HMRC...

[PeterStoba]

I used to use myus.com for shopping in the states. They give you a unique US address and will do the purchase themselves. They also let you specify your own customs details re value etc :S

BorderHQ.com is another similiar site

[Saracen]

And get into even bigger trouble with HMRC...

You will NOT get in trouble if you do what I suggested. It is absolutely legitimate. I have been self-employed, and VAT registered, for about 25 years, so I've got some idea what I'm talking about.

So knock off the sarky rolleyes.

[HSK]

yea defo not worth the hassle. cool if your over there on holiday, pick one up and u can say it was a gift or something. wrap it up in some gift paper. otherwise they might try n tax u etc.

[Powderhound]

You will NOT get in trouble if you do what I suggested. It is absolutely legitimate. I have been self-employed, and VAT registered, for about 25 years, so I've got some idea what I'm talking about.

So knock off the sarky rolleyes.

I thought VAT registration is only for goods used in the course of conducting business, not for personal use.

[Marcos]

I haven't looked at he site quoted, but it's typical for most US stores to quote prices excluding sales tax because, at least in theory, even ordering out-of-state you should (or it used to be the case that you should, unless it's changed) pay local sales tax. In any event, make sure that that price quoted is the final price, and you aren't going to get sales tax (about 6% is common) added on top.


Also, re: the warranty, make sure it's a legit US product, not a grey import to the US. Certainly with many photographic products, big stores import from non-US sources, and offer their own store warranty. If they're doing that, you'd not only have to get it back to the US for warranty, but to that store ....assuming they're still trading.

Given the price, it's tempting I know. But personally, it's not worth the risk or the potential hassle. Instead, wait a few months for the price to drop and buy it here.

Or go self-employed, register for VAT and then claim the VAT back.

Good advice, but that store i linked to is a very trusted and highly reputed laptop retailer, many of the guys at notebookreview.com recommend it.

[barker967]

Do you know anyone in the states who runs his own business? If so, get him to buy it for you, pay him the money then get him to reinvoice you the laptop at a hugely discounted price, say $50, customs won`t know the true value and you then don`t have to pay the import duty when it gets shipped by him to you.

[Saracen]

I thought VAT registration is only for goods used in the course of conducting business, not for personal use.

Oh it is, but if you've gone self-employed, it would be. At least in part. More on that later. And I did say "go self-employed", not to just pretend you had!

Suppose you're a car salesman. You're employed, and paid a salary. In your spare time me, you decide to ... oh I don't know, make scented candles. You buy the moulds, wax and scent, experiment a bit, and decide you've got a viable business. So you sell via Ebay, and you want to design and run a small e-commerce website, and of course you need a support forum, and you have to check your email, maintain accounts somehow, so you buy accounts software. And so on.

You're now running a business, as well as employed as a car salesman. And as soon as you do that (or, IIRC, with 90 days of starting), you tell HMRC that you've done so and you get put on the list of people who have to complete a tax return every year, including the self-employed section.

So, if your turnover in a given year exceeds the registration threshold (about £60k), you MUST register for VAT. The rules are a bit more complex than that, but that's the basic situation. But, even if your business doesn't reach that level, you can still apply for registration.

The logic is, if you feel that not being registered will adversely affect the business, you should apply. Suppose you're targeting corporate hospitality with your candles. If you're not VAT-registered, you're telling your customers a critical factor about your business, i.e,. turnover is less than £60k. And that's turnover, not profit. i.e. you're small. Many companies won't deal with suppliers that small. as they have a habit of coming and going too quickly. So you apply on that basis.

But nothing in all this suggests you have to be putting vast hours or effort in. And, of course, the business can fail after a few months. And, of course, not only can you claim the VAT back on the laptop (and anything else you buy for the business), but you can offset the capital cost against profits, so you could get another 20% back.

On an £1000 (at high street prices) laptop, there's roughly £150 VAT. So net cost is £850. With 20% (£170) allowed (over time) against Income Tax, that's a net cost after tax of £680.


My suggestion to go self-employed wasn't entirely serious (hence the grin smiley), and there are numerous implications (not least, filing in all the paperwork, and keeping the records), but it's certainly a legitimate way of getting a laptop cheap ..... though it's hardly likely to be justified just for that reason.

Powderhound, when I first went self-employed, I'd bought an Apple II a couple of years before. Shortly after registering for VAT, I had a VAT inspection. The inspector investigated my books, and declared himself happy. Then he said that as a computer consultant, did I have a computer. Yes, I told him. But I'd bought it before I went self-employed. Doesn't matter, he said .... do I use it for business? Yup, I said, and that's why I'd bought it .... learning purposes.

So claim the VAT back, he told me. Pre-commencement expenses.

So, if you've bought the laptop for business use, it's claimable and you can get the VAT back. But it gets more complicated if you use it for personal use too. The basic rule is that you can only claim VAT back in proportion to the percentage of total use that is for business. If the laptop is 20% business and 80% personal, you could claim 20% of the VAT. If it's 95% business and 5% personal, you could claim 95% of the VAT.

The tricky bit is how you determine those percentages. HMRC will give you a fair degree of latitude, for the simple reason that in many situations, that percentage is either a very inexact science, or analysing it accurately would be disproportionately expensive. For instance, you could analyse your home phone bill, call by call, and claim the exact percentage. What I did was to do exactly that for several months, then average the percentages and continue to claim that percentage.

There's no rules on exactly how you determine that percentage. And HMRC will give some leeway. But whatever you do, you must be fair and reasonable, and you may be required to justify the percentage.

That same logic applies to all sorts of things. If you use one bedroom as a study for business, but also as a play room, and decide to redecorate, you can claim part of the VAT on the cost of the decoration. If it's 50% business and 50% play, claim 50% of the VAT on the decorating. If you work from home, you can claim a percentage of the fuel and heating bills. But what percentage. It might be one room in eight that's used, which suggests 12.5%, but you only use or for business 50% of the time, which suggests half of 12.5%. But ..... if you work from home, you'll be at home a lot more than if you worked in an office, so you'll be running heating, power, etc a lot more of the time. You can therefore claim against a much higher percentage of such relevant bills that 6.25%, but you must be able to justify what you claim. If you go for 95 - 100%, you'll probably raise eyebrows with a VAT inspector ..... and get it turned down, unless you can show a convincing case why that's fair. If you go for 75-80%, it'll probably not raise eyebrows.


So .... back to the laptop :-

• if you're self-employed, and you use it for business, you can reclaim at least part of the VAT, even if there's personal use too
  
• how big that part is depends on use, or at least, what you can reasonably and rationally say is business use
  
• registering for VAT fraudulently, if you weren't actually running a business would be criminal and, in my view, mind-numbingly stupid, especially over a laptop
  

Now, let me ask you a question. Suppose you get a VAT inspector call and he queries a laptop purchase, because you use it for playing some games (not that I've ever had an inspector ask to examine the contents of my hard drives). but you admit to playing a few games. Then you justify the 100% claim by pointing out that you bought it for business, you use it for that candle business, it's essential for the business and that you wouldn't have bought it for games. But hey, since you've got it anyway, you play the occasional game. But if that causes a problem, you'll delete the games. It is, after all, a business tool and the games are an inconsequential side-use, perhaps for when you're away (on business) and are bored in your hotel room. If relieving that boredom on a business trip business use, and can you fairly claim that? Is it fair and reasonable? Hint - three successive VAT inspectors have accepted it from me. Why? Well' I have a couple of PCs at home that I did NOT claim VAT on. They're the personal machines. The other eight or nine, including laptops, are for business even if I do occasionally use some of them them for personal things. After all, if I working, it seems a bit silly to go upstairs and power up a "personal" machine, just to check HEXUS for 5 minutes, don't you agree? Not claiming for those two personal machines (one reasonably new, one quite old) is evidence of me being fair and reasonable in the claims I make. Like I said, they'll generally cut you some slack, providing you aren't taking the pee.

So .... claiming VAT back won't get you in trouble with HMRC, and is perfectly legitimate, providing you do go self-employed, and providing you follow the rules and play the game.

Oh, and HMRC aren't stupid, They know people can be a bit 'creative' about those percentages. And they don't seem to care. At each case level, the amounts are so small as to be trivial, even if they add up on a national scale. Just don't be too cheeky with what you claim. Keep it half-reasonable, and there should be no trouble. Take the micky, however ...... well, let's just say you do NOT want to annoy HMRC, because with repeated VAT inspections and Income Tax audits, they can make your life a living hell if they so choose. In my experience (in my chartered accountancy days), they don't choose to do so too often, but if they if they wish to really make a point, they can do so, with big brass bells on.

And if you got as far as reading all that without dozing off, I'd guess you now know more about VAT than you wanted too.

[Saracen]

Do you know anyone in the states who runs his own business? If so, get him to buy it for you, pay him the money then get him to reinvoice you the laptop at a hugely discounted price, say $50, customs won`t know the true value and you then don`t have to pay the import duty when it gets shipped by him to you.

And if it goes missing, you've got a customs declaration showing the goods at $50 value. Good luck with a £700 insurance claim.

And customs aren't entirely stupid either. If they see an apparently new (or nearly new) laptop at $50, they KNOW it's worth a lot more than that, whatever it is, and whatever the actual specific value. They are therefore likely to assume it's an attempt at tax evasion, and you're flirting with confiscation. It might get past them. but is it a risk worth taking with an expensive item like that?

</Dirty Harry voice on >

Are you feeling lucky today?

[Marcos]

ok so lets say i do it legit and get it posted over, and pay the customs, how much would the duty tax be on a &#163;770 laptop?

[Saracen]

The costs you pay will be :-

1. add the costs of any local sales tax, and packaging/shipping to the cost of the laptop
   
   
2. you pay import duty at the prevailing rate on the total in A). At the last time I looked, duty on laptops was 0&#37;, so B) = A). If duty rates have changed, that will no longer be true
   
   
3. Add VAT at 17.5% on the total in B). In other words, you pay Import duty on the local sales tax as well as the goods, then you pay VAT on the import duty as well as the goods and costs to that point, so you've been triple-taxed.
   
   
4. Add any handling charge from the UK courier (for customs clearance, etc. This, again last I looked, was typically &#163;15-20.

Therefore, assuming you get charged, and assuming import duty is still zero on laptops ....

VAT = 17/5% of &#163;770, i.e. &#163;134.75

Courier charge (say, &#163;20)

Total charges .... &#163;154.75.

Therefore total cost = &#163;770 + &#163;154.75 = &#163;924.75.

But the only way to be absolutely sure will be to talk to Customs about it, and get clarification of the Commodity Code that will be applied, and the rate relevant to that code. And even then, as I understand it, that will be advisory only, and the final decision (subject to appeals) is down to the officer handling the item when it comes in.

[peterb]

Thanks for the VAT explanation, Sarcen - thinking of going that route myself ATM - possibly with a limited liability company (of course in the context of the post - the laptop would then be the property of the company, rather than 'me'!)

[dmuz]

VAT = 17/5% of £770, i.e. £134.75

Courier charge (say, £20)

Total charges .... £154.75.

Therefore total cost = £770 + £154.75 = £924.75.

You pay VAT on the total inclusive of delivery charges

[Saracen]

You pay VAT on the total inclusive of delivery charges

Yes, but that courier charge I referred to is the customs handling charge, not for delivery. If I remember correctly, that is exempt from VAT ... but I could be wrong. It's the charge the agent (Consignia??) makes for opening and inspecting parcels on behalf of Customs, resealing them, warehousing while Customs make any inquiries, etc. I thought that was VAT-exclusive, but if you say not, I take your word for it. I wasn't referring to delivery, though. The delivery charge would be included in part A of my account.

[Marcos]

this is annoying, the black one is not available in the UK