New HTPC build - about to take the plunge!

[dangel]

why bother with a large case? because it has better air flow, better expansion for more components. easier to work with and potentialy a quieter pc due to bigger fans.

small cases are a nightmare to work with!

Well it's whatever suits you - personally I agree and I have the space next to my 5.1 amp anyway so it's a non issue

[j.o.s.h.1408]

yup exactly. i personaly dont like small cases especialy if your planning to game on one.

Theirs a reason why so many 360's fail. poor cooling and ventilation

[jim]

link me to a couple of trailers or something you have tried and ill run em by it

Thanks for the offer, but I've decided I'll trust your initial judgment on this one. I've also found out that VLC is one of the more resource-hungry solutions, so hopefully with another player and some careful tweaking something around the 2.5-2.8 mark should cope with it well.

Cheers

[GaryRW]

Chaps - any views on the Intel E3200 + Nvidia 9300 chipset vs AMD Athlon II 240 (240e when available) + 780/785g chipset?

A while back, everyone seemed to go for AMD 4850e/5050e + 780g, but the Athlon II's seem a bit more greedy when it comes to power. Any views on how much less power the 'e' version will be? Worth waiting a month for?

(they'll always be something round the corner after all, & I'm not even going to ask whether it's worth waiting for the i3's with fully integrated GPU on CPU die )

Any thoughts are very much appreciated

[scaryjim]

According to this speculative list on Wikipedia the e versions will be 45W.

I'm currently running a (single core) Sempron 140 + 785G and it's coping comfortably with my HTPC needs (although I'm not particularly invested in HD). The Semprons can be unlocked to a full dual core, but I'm not sure how that affects their power consumption.

Prior to the NVidia 9300 chipset Intel didn't have any integrated graphics platform that could even remotely compete with 780G, which is why it was so popular. The Nvidia 9300 graphics performance is slightly better than 785G, although 785G is both cheaper and easier to source in mATX format (you're looking at £80 for ebuyer's cheapest 9300 mATX, vs. < £50 for the cheapest 785G (am2+/ddr2) - both from MSI. You can also get an ASUS am3/ddr3 mATX 785G for £60). Obviously (because I've just done it!) I'd personally get a 785G mobo with a Sempron 140, but if you *must* have more than one core I'd wait for the Athlon II e-editions to come out and make a processor decision then.

[crazyfool]

Also don't forget that 780G cant run HD at 24p if that applies here and that for good deinterlacing you need to pair it with a phenom. Not sure about the 785 but if I were you I'd be looking at a 9300 board.

[GaryRW]

Ok, I've just noticed that the Silverstone SG05 and SG06 mini-itx cases are on special today only at £68 and £83 respectively. From a quick google, looks like they are essentially the same, though the SG06 has an aluminium front and actually has a front to speak of, rather than just a big fan grill. Having said that, the fan grill being open will probably help cooling.

Being mini-ITX, they comfortably fit in my little cupboard, the slightly bigger SG06 being 286mm deep. So DVD player at the front, and wires out the back

This review (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article968-page10.html) over at Silent PC seems to suggest they're reasonable, and they include a 80+ certified 300w psu. So the £68 SG05 would be £47 cheaper than the £115 combination of Lian Li case + Be Quiet PSU cost.

Looking quickly, this zotac s775 board, with the nvidia 9300 chipset (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Zotac...Board-Graphics) is £106, £23 more than the Asus board i'd picked out. So blow me down, the mini-ITX combo works out £24 cheaper. Today, anyway.

EDIT: or this Intel DG45FC mini-ITX board at only £86 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/151488...ctype=extended), saving £44.

So any obvious problems?? I've noticed the silverstone only accepts slim optical drives. Which will presumably mean any Blu-ray drive will be more expensive, and also means my old spare drive won't fit in as a temporary measure. damn. Only realised that as I've typed this

I've noticed there's a silverstone drive in the scan slimline optical drive section. Would any slimline fit. The cheapest blu-ray slimline at the moment is £130+ versus £50 for the cheapest normal size blu-ray. I think that might put paid to this. & I was getting all excited that I'd be forced into ordering today.

[Methanoid]

Zotac doesnt support Wake on USB.. thats a killer for many for HTPCs

[s_kinton]

Zotac doesnt support Wake on USB.. thats a killer for many for HTPCs

Des that go for all Zotac boards though? I thought it was a specific problem on a certain model (cant remember which).

EDIT: The 9300 and 8200 ITX board cannot wake on USB, the ION boards couldnt initially but were revised. Not sure about the others.

Apparently the USB ports have been designed to power from the 5v line rather than standby power, so the arent active when in S3 sleep.

[GaryRW]

Thanks guys. Seems later revision of the ion Zotac board are ok, but I couldn't find confirmation that the 9300 socket 775 zotac board is ok now. In any event, Anandtech implies you can only find out the revision number by breaking open the box and looking at the board itself, and I suspect ebuyer/scan etc... wouldn't be too happy doing that.

i liked the look of the intel mini-itx s775 board, but a review on silent pc suggested the s3 sleep power usage was 7w (usually about 2-3w). Now I know I should just ignore that as a piffingly amount, but as I think the box will spend a lot of time asleep, it does grate. There don't seem many/any other intel s775 itx boards out there really. Oh, and even the Asus matx board I chose in my OP seems to be out of stock everywhere.

So back to square one on the intel front. Looking like I will have to wait for the athlon II low power e versions to come out and take a view then.

I did read one review, think it was on silent pc, suggesting that the recent Intel chips were often way below their rated TDP. as per my OP, xbit-labs said the e3200 only used 20w at 100% load, but it's rated as a 45w part. (I may be getting confused between thermal output and electrical input, but I still thought watt was a energy rating, so not sure that makes a difference. )

The AMD chips on the other hand seem to come close to their actual rating. This page (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article949-page5.html) suggests the system power draw jumped from around 60w at idle to around 120-125w when the Athlon II 250 was put on 100% CPU load. That's pretty much it's rating of 65w. Not sure whether that includes PSU inefficiency or not, but presumably the chip was using some power at idle anyway. So I am worried that even the AMD e rated chips will still use more than the latest core 2's.

(ps - I am trying to include info in these posts in the vain hope it may help others who are also looking into a HTPC and want a low power set-up)

[jim]

Info about the 9300 Wake on USB Situation here http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-net/15...x-board-2.html

[GaryRW]

Looks like they have jumped to revision 3, includes the addition of dual-link DVI, support for wake on USB from S3, and an additional internal SATA port.

(from the thread Snooty Jim linked to)

So if ebuyer list their board as having the extra sata port, I should be safe that it also has the fixed wake on USB support.... (I'll edit when I've done the appropriate googling.)

EDIT: Actually, it's scan that have that board but they don't list the number of internal sata ports. I'll post in the scan support forum.

EDIT2: Meant to say thanks to SnootyJim!

[GaryRW]

So, a month later and still no news on the Zotac mini-itx board Seems to be on sale in the US, but no-one in the UK has any news. There's a thread in the Scan support section asking for info, but no reply yet...

In the mean time, I've found the Silverstone GD-04 case (http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=1095121) which is listed as being 323mm deep . That's a micro-atx case which opens up the motherboard options quite a bit. If I leave the case pushed right up against the cupboard doors, it should leave about 3cm behind it. So..... do you reckon 3 cm is enough for cables??

Looking at these photos (http://www.silverstonetek.com/produc...=GD04&area=usa) it looks like a normal case in that PCI cards and motherboard I/O area are recessed about 1.5 cm so for any cables plugging in there, should be 4.5cm which I reckon is ok: It'll be HDMI for the tv, might be a bit tight for usb leads but should be ok, again the tv aerial on my tuner card will be tight, but I think ok.

The one I'm worried about is the power plug. Normal kettle leads stick out easily 6cm, and that's from the absolute back of the case. I'm sure I had a angled kettle lead somewhere, but can't seem to find one in the house.

Looking at this piccy, I think it should stick out less than 3cm, but I reckon it'll be tight . Has anybody got a right angled kettle lead that they can measure the sticky out bit for me

[pauldarkside]

I wouldn't just be concerned with space for cables. Are you sure you're going to have enough space behind the case to expel the heat? It'll need some room to breathe...

[GaryRW]

Funny you should say that, I just came back to edit my last post asking what people think about air flow....

The cupboard is quite big, just not very deep. As above, about 35.5cm deep, 30cm high and about 80cm wide inside. Having measured it, it doesn't seem that big anymore

The cupboard doors are usually left ajar, and I am trying to make it as low power as possible. It'll be integrated graphics of some sort and at the moment I'm swaying towards a sempron 140 (i.e. one of the athlon II x2's, but only one core active). ScaryJim reckons that'll be enough for HTPC use. So I'm hoping it'll be low power enough not to actually heat up too much

EDIT: Looking at the pic at the bottom of this page (http://www.silverstonetek.com/produc...=GD04&area=usa) - it looks like the airflow is designed to be one 120mm intake on the left, 2x120mm intake fans on the right and then the air is just vented out the back. I presume I could swap the intake fan on the left to pull air out the case. That should be enough, shouldn't it?

Thanks again for any help