Recent Bad Ebuyer Experience

[Andaho]

So, I just bought an 8gb 2x4gb ram kit from ebuyer, and when I went through checkout I selected the 3 working day delivery option costing £1.51. Then after paying, I received an email receipt showing they charged me £4.99 for delivery!

I sent a complaint through their eNotes system, and it goes like this:

Andrew Hogg 12/01/2013 01:45
When I purchased this order, the checkout page looked like this:
http://gyazo.com/16e1d5f3e0d3de633ed2a2f5ede57403

Then after receiving email confirmation of my order, it shows it cost
£36.24. A difference of £3.48 more.

Sarah 14/01/2013 18:14
Dear Andrew Hogg,

Thank you for contacting our Customer Support Team.

The prices for items on our website fluctuate on a daily basis. This can be
for different reasons such as some items being sourced from other
warehouses, or the cost price to us may be less therefore the item can be
sold at a lower price. We are only able to sell an item for the price it is
at the time of placing your order. Unfortunately we cannot advise if or
when these price changes will occur.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Kind Regards,

Sarah

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team

Andrew Hogg 14/01/2013 21:57
I assume you were unable to view the screenshot I linked to.

It was not the item price I was complaining about: When I checked out, I
selected the delivery option costing £1.51 (as seen in the screenshot).

At no point during the checkout was I aware that the price I was going to
pay was different. But Once I had paid, and received email confirmation of
my payment, the price had changed showing the delivery cost £4.99 inc VAT,
and not £1.51 as the price was shown at checkout (in the screenshot I
linked to in the first message).

Sarah 15/01/2013 08:33
Dear Andrew Hogg,

Thank you for your response.

The lower delivery charge is for Royal mail delivery however when you elect
to pay through Paypal, a signature is required upon receipt and so goods
have to ship via courier, which incurs a higher carriage charge.


Kind Regards,

Sarah

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team

Andrew Hogg 15/01/2013 09:40
Thank you for explaining that paying through paypal means that the cheaper
delivery option by royal mail is not available.

However, at no point during the checkout process was this made clear, and I
would have been happy to pay by any other method.

I am annoyed that this wasn't made clear, and when spending 5 minutes just
now looking through your delivery terms and conditions I still cannot see
where it states that if you pay by paypal you cannot have your item
delivered by royal mail and that you will automatically charge a higher
rate without telling the customer.

I do not care about the cost difference of £3.48 more, and I would have
still bought it if it was listed at a higher price. My complaint is that
at no point during the checkout was I told that I was going to get charged
extra for paying by paypal. - If I was aware of this I would have paid by
any preferred method.

This experience is quickly making me lose faith in ebuyer as a trustworthy
online retailer that I would use in the future or recommend to friends.

- How am I expected to trust that next time you will not discreetly charge
me £1000 for delivery after previously quoting free delivery in the
checkout process?

This complaint is about a lack of integrity.

Sarah 15/01/2013 09:47
Dear Andrew Hogg,

Thank you for your response.

I would again like to offer our most humble apologies for the annoyance and
frustration which this matter has caused.

The order price is quoted before you elect to submit payment on the PayPal
page however all customer feedback is greatly valued within Ebuyer as this
is essential in the continuation of our company as we progress forward. As
such the feedback you have raised regarding this matter has been forward
onto the relevant department.

Kind Regards,

Sarah

Ebuyer.com
Customer Support Team

I am amazed that they still do not offer to refund the difference of £3.48... I don't care about the money, but their after sales customer service seems more like customer fobbing off service. - Although, to give them credit, they do reply quickly.

[jimbouk]

Did PayPal not show you the new total before you confirmed the purchase? There's usually a summary page with a total, merchant name, etc when I've used PayPal to pay for items from other webstores.

I've had nothing but good experience from Ebuyer, quick to respond as you say, helpful and refunded for an out of stock item in 2 days (and on a Saturday). Other companies could learn from them tbh.

[Andaho]

Did PayPal not show you the new total before you confirmed the purchase? There's usually a summary page with a total, merchant name, etc when I've used PayPal to pay for items from other webstores.

I've had nothing but good experience from Ebuyer, quick to respond as you say, helpful and refunded for an out of stock item in 2 days (and on a Saturday). Other companies could learn from them tbh.

Yes, to be honest, paypal might have shown the total before payment, but I didn't really pay much attention to the price of the RAM when buying - Like I said in my complaint, It wouldn't have mattered if the ram has cost £3.48 more, I still would have bought it. But I did make a conscious effort to select delivery costing £1.51.

And I only paid by paypal because of the big "PAY BY PAYPAL" in their payment options, because that was going to be quicker than getting my card out of my wallet and typing in the card details... If I had known that their delivery price would be higher, of course I would have paid by card.

I'm just amazed that their customer service are so good at avoiding the issue, and don't offer a refund for the difference, when clearly they are in the wrong for adding a secret charge when it''s not even in their small print!

[Saracen]

I have to say, the scenario as outlined would annoy the hell out of me, and, were it me, I would immediately cancel under the DSR and, if goods had shipped, reject delivery. I would then buy elsewhere, even if it cost me significantly more.

I agree with Andaho - the few quid difference is not the point.

If a delivery method has been selected, then either only applicable payment options ought to be available, or at the very least, an explicit warning ought to be made that selecting a payment method will change that previously selected delivery method.

I have a lot of respect for eBuyer, in general, but in this situation, as portrayed, I feel they are utterly in the wrong, and that at the very least, the way this appears to have worked is badly lacking in transparency.

I more or less stopped using Scan, and absolutely and utterly stopped recommending them, because of what I felt was underhand and deceitful practice in adding Scansure to baskets when buyers had not explicitly selected it, and this falls into that same category, though is perhaps not as egregious an example.

I hope eBuyer think this through, because it has the potential to do them quite a lot of reputational harm.

[Andaho]

Thanks I already feel better for posting my rant

But yeah, if I felt cancelling my order would cause them any remorse, then I would. But the order is now "Picking in progress" to be despatched today... And it would cause me more hassle than them if I were to cancel and re-order somewhere else... Because I did at least an hour of research into buying this particular ram (1333Mhz @ 7,7,7,24), and nowhere else has it in stock at a good price.

If I cancel, they won't care, and I'd have to pay more to get it from somewhere else... But I will certainly remember this experience, and next time when I buy anything, I will look at ebuyer last.

A very good point about scan, I guess unconsciously I had also stopped using them because I didn't like their scansure insurance being auto-added... But at least it's clear what it is and easy to remove... Not a completely hidden charge that's added to the total at the end!

[Saracen]

Thanks I already feel better for posting my rant

But yeah, if I felt cancelling my order would cause them any remorse, then I would. But the order is now "Picking in progress" to be despatched today... And it would cause me more hassle than them if I were to cancel and re-order somewhere else... Because I did at least an hour of research into buying this particular ram (1333Mhz @ 7,7,7,24), and nowhere else has it in stock at a good price.

If I cancel, they won't care, and I'd have to pay more to get it from somewhere else... But I will certainly remember this experience, and next time when I buy anything, I will look at ebuyer last.

A very good point about scan, I guess unconsciously I had also stopped using them because I didn't like their scansure insurance being auto-added... But at least it's clear what it is and easy to remove... Not a completely hidden charge that's added to the total at the end!

I take the point about the hassle of starting over, but personally I would be prepared to cut off my nose to spite my face, as it were. On principle, regardless of cost or hassle, I'd cancel, and either do without, or select a different product elsewhere, or just pay more.

I certainly wouldn't expect eBuyer to panic about losing my business, any more than I'm sure Scan don't give a hoot about losing my business or recommendations. But nonethessless, not withstanding risking a "cut nose", I would cancel and demand a FULL refund, including shipping, and buy elsewhere. But I accept I'm probably in a small minority in that attitude .... which is a shame, since if we all did that, companies would take customer service far more seriously than a lot currently do.

[DeludedGuy]

Don't use Google checkout in the future, they have plenty of other options which you could have used to pay.

I really don't see your side of the argument, especially since you have admitted to not checking the total price on the Google checkout screen before clicking the pay button. I am not having a go here but you should always check the total before clicking the pay button on any website, don't rely on price when viewing your basket because that rarely includes other extras like Scan Sure for example.

[jimbouk]

Well I tried to recreate this and failed, perhaps I was delivering to a confirmed PayPal address? After entering my PayPal details it takes me back to Ebuyer and lists the breakdown of costs together with the shipping method. Hopefully when they say they'll take it up with the relevant department they will and perhaps things will be highlighted more on that page if something has changed. It doesn't sound like a deliberate attempt to extract more money like the Scansure double opt-out mess (that was also one of my reasons for giving up on and stop recommending Scan to anyone).

[jim]

Don't use Google checkout in the future, they have plenty of other options which you could have used to pay.

I really don't see your side of the argument, especially since you have admitted to not checking the total price on the Google checkout screen before clicking the pay button. I am not having a go here but you should always check the total before clicking the pay button on any website, don't rely on price when viewing your basket because that rarely includes other extras like Scan Sure for example.

It's all about companies being transparent. Sure, we can all check the figure at the end, but if companies add things to your bill without explaining to you A) that it's being done and B) why it's being done, then it's really irritating.

More generally, to my mind, if companies add anything to your bill that you didn't specifically ask for, and wouldn't typically expect (i.e. delivery cost is necessary and acceptable), I'm pretty frustrated.

[Andaho]

I take the point about the hassle of starting over, but personally I would be prepared to cut off my nose to spite my face, as it were. On principle, regardless of cost or hassle, I'd cancel, and either do without, or select a different product elsewhere, or just pay more.

I certainly wouldn't expect eBuyer to panic about losing my business, any more than I'm sure Scan don't give a hoot about losing my business or recommendations. But nonetheless, not withstanding risking a "cut nose", I would cancel and demand a FULL refund, including shipping, and buy elsewhere. But I accept I'm probably in a small minority in that attitude .... which is a shame, since if we all did that, companies would take customer service far more seriously than a lot currently do.

I think that any business should care about future business and recommendations (I am self-employed in business myself). - I take a more logical approach; I would only cut off my nose to spite my face if it was going to cause them an inconvenience or remorse. - As you said, they wouldn't give a hoot if I cancel my order!

Don't use Google checkout in the future, they have plenty of other options which you could have used to pay.

It was paypal, not google checkout, but as I said earlier "I only paid by paypal because of the big "PAY BY PAYPAL" in their payment options, because that was going to be quicker than getting my card out of my wallet and typing in the card details."

I really don't see your side of the argument, especially since you have admitted to not checking the total price on the Google checkout screen before clicking the pay button. I am not having a go here but you should always check the total before clicking the pay button on any website, don't rely on price when viewing your basket because that rarely includes other extras like Scan Sure for example.

This is my side of the argument:

I admit I didn't pay attention to the total when doing the final click to pay on paypal, because I had already looked at the total on the eBuyer checkout and believed that was what I was paying:- But even so, Paypal doesn't give a breakdown of the charges like the eBuyer checkout did... I didn't care if the ram was £30, £35 or £40, but I did care that I had taken the time to make a concious decision on choosing £1.51 for delivery rather than £6.98 for next day delivery... If it had said that it was £4.99 for 3 days delivery, or £6.98 for next day, I probably would have chosen next day delivery for the extra £1.99. - So having not really cared how much the RAM cost, but having made a concious decision to select 3 day delivery for £1.51, I expect to have paid £1.51 for delivery! But even if I had paid attention and seen that the paypal total was higher, there was nothing to say that the delivery was going to cost £4.99 - It just gives a total.

The thing I'm most annoyed about is how it was a completely 100% hidden charge, that isn't even mentioned in their terms and conditions. - And they even acknowledge the problem, but do not offer a refund for the difference.

[Andaho]

Well I tried to recreate this and failed,...

My paypal account is fully verified. I have also tried to re-create it and failed.... because they no longer give the option for £1.51 (Royal Mail) delivery.

...After entering my PayPal details it takes me back to Ebuyer and lists the breakdown of costs together with the shipping method...

This is exactly how I remember checking out, and the breakdown said delivery was £1.51.

EDIT:

Just tried again with a different product (that did offer £1.51 royal mail delivery), and in the checkout process when you click the PayPal button, the paypal link appears below, but what I didn't notice before; the total amount displayed at the top of the page discreetly changed to a higher total. - I had already looked at that part of the page, and was reading down the page... clicking paypal, then continuing to read down, and you click the link to pay... changing the total on the top of the page after I had already read it was very discreet.

When I tried to replicate it before and it didn't offer the £1.51 delivery, I think that must have been because the ram had risen in price (from 31.25 to 35.74), and was therefore no longer available for royal mail delivery.

[Saracen]

I think that any business should care about future business and recommendations (I am self-employed in business myself). - I take a more logical approach; I would only cut off my nose to spite my face if it was going to cause them an inconvenience or remorse. - As you said, they wouldn't give a hoot if I cancel my order!

....

To be honest, my more logical approach is that, wherever possible, I buy locally, and usually, in cash. But I'm lucky in having a small, local shop that, sometimes, matches mail-order prices, and the rest of the time, gets pretty close.

I pay cash because, first, I prefer to. Second, I don't like debt, and that includes credit cards. Third, privacy. The more I use cash, the less anyone, including credit card companies, can profile me. My local shop couldn't even give an address for me. They know me by face, but not name, and I've been using them for about 25 years. Ironically, my adherence to cash isn't about VAT. I'm VAT registered, so those (cash) receipts go into my books.

But another reason for buying locally is that I can pay cash, and that avoids the bulk of the hassle with mail-order, with this kind of dispute, and with .... shudder .... couriers.

It sometimes costs me more to do this, but what I get for that extra cost is a considerable reduction in hassle. It is, at least in part, an active hassle-dodging program. To me, it's money well-spent, and part of the price of looking for minimum item cost is the nuisance involved in mail order. It's a game I choose to not play, whenever I have an option.

[peterb]

Were you paying directly from a PayPal account or via PayPal's merchant services? I don't use my PayPal account at all, but there are merchants who use PayPal for processing payments made with a credit card. I don't recall having the charges increased because of a signature requirement.

Maybe it is buyer protection using funds in a PayPal account, in which case I'd agree it should explained. Is it in PayPal's Ts & Cs?

[jim]

IIRC PayPal's buyer/seller protection has very stringent rules over what kind of shipping can be used, and 1st Class expressly does not qualify.

As you say though, if it's merchant services then that's all irrelevant.

[DeludedGuy]

It's all about companies being transparent. Sure, we can all check the figure at the end, but if companies add things to your bill without explaining to you A) that it's being done and B) why it's being done, then it's really irritating.

More generally, to my mind, if companies add anything to your bill that you didn't specifically ask for, and wouldn't typically expect (i.e. delivery cost is necessary and acceptable), I'm pretty frustrated.

But in this case it was not the fault of ebuyer, but PayPal

[jim]

But in this case it was not the fault of ebuyer, but PayPal

I don't see how. If they're going to offer a payment option that's incompatible with the full range of delivery options, then that ought to be made clear - they clearly know that it's a possibility.