First decent D-SLR: Canon EOS 450d or Nikon D90?

[colmo]

I so nearly used the bucket analogy in an earlier post, but it seems tfboy couldn't resist

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I suggest Niko start here:
http://photo.net/learn/

I suggest he also nips down to the local library (if he has one) and grab a few photography basics books. While we could teach him everything, the material is available out there already, and done better than with us putting up ad hoc posts. We'll help clarify stuff, certainly.

I also think we should have a new thread for Niko, as we've gone rather OT.

[Maria26662]

Hi there,

I know you guys have been overloaded with questions already but I'm in the same boat as Taz.
I'm starting a photography course in the new year, I haven't decided which one yet but looking at Institute of Photography unless anyone knows any better ones?

I'm a complete amateur with digital SLRs, I've only ever used digital cameras before.

Like Taz I was looking at the Canon 450D and the Nikon D90 but the D90 may be a little out of my budget (unless they come down in the January Sales).

I went to currys to see which handled the best, I thought the Canon may be better as its lighter and its currently £469.99 and then there is £50 cashback. The canon comes with an 18-55mm IS lens and you can also get the Tamron 70-300mm lens for £99 when bought with the camera - I thought this was quite a good deal but then I saw a deal for the Samsung Digital SLR Camera Kit - GX-20 Twins Lens Kit with 18-55 and 50-200 Zoom Lenses at £576.49 Delivered.

I'm going to wait until the xmas sales start to hopefully get a good deal, but I wanted to ask which you guys thought was the better deal and better camera to start out with?

I take photo's of extreme close ups, portraits and outdoor landscapes - would the lenses I've mentioned cover these or would I need to buy more?

Also I'm looking for a really good photo printer, can anyone recommend any good sites?

I thought the best way for me to learn would be to jump in and play around with it. Reading your discussion I can see I have lots to learn.

If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[kalniel]

They're all excellent cameras - it really comes down to which you prefer to operate. Twin lens kits would cover the majority of your work - but by extreme close-up do you mean macro (actually magnifying, like for photos of bugs etc.)? If so then you might want to add a fixed focal length macro lens around 80 to 100mm, which can also double as a portrait lens - then if budget was a concern I'd drop the telephoto zoom, as with the macro lens you won't need it for portraits, and landscapes will be covered by your wider angle lens. Otherwise it'll be much cheaper to just stick with the twin lenses for now.

Can't answer about printers, sorry.

[colmo]

Those three cameras are not quite in the same class - only the 450D does not possess a rugged weather-proofed build and glass prism viewfinder, or a PC sync socket for studio flash. The D90 and GX-20 do. Note that 7dayshop had the GX-20 listed for less for a while (iirc), and there will be blood in the retail waters this January, so bide your time. I believe there's a big photo expo in March, so we'll see new models introduced then, and stocks of the previous ones getting slashed further.

[Maria26662]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for all your help.
After much hunting around I have ordered the Nikon D90 and 18-105mm kit lens for £671 which I thought was too good an offer to refuse plus I liked the handling of this camera, I feel it will be a good camera to start off with.
I thought the Samsung was it bit too heavy to start off with.
I've decided to play with the kit lens for now, then once I'm used to that I'll purchase some more but I think the macro lens is the way to go - any suggestions for a decent macro?
Also I've ordered a few books, and a dvd on the nikon d90 which I think will help me more than any manual.


Just got to wait for delivery now

[tfboy]

Congratulations You're going to love it

As you've plumped for the Nikon, if you are after some (more) reading material, I really really really recommend Thom Hogan's books on learning how to use the camera. He goes into the most minute detail whilst still being very clear and easy to understand. I have a couple of his books and they are truly awesome IMO.

He's published one for the D90: http://www.bythom.com/nikond90guide.htm

I can't recommend any macro lenses, apart from the Nikon 105mm 2.8 VR but it's not cheap

But I know you can get second hand or relatively cheap Sigma that will be fine.

[brammers]

d90 looks sweet - probably 80% of what a 40D/a700 does + video. That lens is supposed to be nice too. Look forwards to some shots

Macros come in loads of different flavours depending on how much working distance you want - the distance between the end of the lens and the subject. If you're say copying pictures of stamps you don't care how close you get, so a short macro will do the job. If you're trying to take pics of little critters a little more working distance might come in handy.

Good thing about macro lenses is that they're so simple it's hard to build a bad one - even the ancient Minoltas from 1985 hold up very well on today's super resolution FF sensors. Quick list from memory and by category - I'm not famliliar with Nikon's 2nd hand range:

Sigma 50mm 2.8 macro - should be very cheap, esp 2nd hand
Nikon 60mm 2.8 micro
Sigma 70mm 2.8 macro - gets a bit soft focusing towards infinity

Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro - cheap and good
Cosina 100mm 3.5 macro - very cheap and good (sold under loads of different names - vivitar, phoenix, quantaray...)
Sigma 105mm 2.8 macro - cheap and good :E
Nikon 105mm 2.8 VR macro - not cheap, but very good

Sigma 150mm 2.8 macro - longer
Tamron 180mm macro - longer
Nikon 200mm f4 macro - longest!

A Cosina will come in at around 70 quid, a Sigma 50 around 50quid. You can sometimes get Sigma 100s for 100 quid - they're often overlooked for the Tamrons. The Sigma and Tamron longer macros are a lot more affordable than the Nikon, which is really, really expensive.

Remember that you can also do macro by close-up filters and by reversing rings - either reversing a lens onto the end of your zoom or reversing a lens straight onto your body.

[Taz]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for all your help.
After much hunting around I have ordered the Nikon D90 and 18-105mm kit lens for £671 which I thought was too good an offer to refuse plus I liked the handling of this camera, I feel it will be a good camera to start off with.
I thought the Samsung was it bit too heavy to start off with.
I've decided to play with the kit lens for now, then once I'm used to that I'll purchase some more but I think the macro lens is the way to go - any suggestions for a decent macro?
Also I've ordered a few books, and a dvd on the nikon d90 which I think will help me more than any manual.


Just got to wait for delivery now

You'll love it! I've not even set it up properly yet (apart from the date and time). It's just a point and click camera for me at the moment and produces stunning photographs. I must get around to reading the manual to get the best out of it but I can't see the point as it's so simple to use out of the box.

I, too, am on the lookout for a macro lens for it so will be looking for recommendations. The kits lens with the D90 is an extremely good lens so the kit version of the D90 represents very good value for money.

I was going to buy the body only with a couple of lenses but am glad I bought the kit, thanks to advice received in this thread. It allows you to play with the camera and work out what kind of 'proper' lens you'll really need. To my surprise, I need a macro rather than a long zoom lens which I thought I would have needed.

I highly recommend you get something like a 4GB Sandisk Extreme III card with it. It allows you to point and click in rapid succession and you won't have to worry about running out of memory.

[this_is_gav]

Sigma 150mm 2.8 macro - longer

I have this one, and it's a fantastic lens. Just fantastic.

[Maria26662]

Thanks again guys,
Looks like est delivery is tomorrow so I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for the info on macro lenses Brammers, I'll have a look at them all online and see what I can get. I have absolutely no idea about filters but I'm sure I'll learn as I get through all the books

TFboy - I've ordered 5 books and a dvd so far so I think I'll wait until I've finished those first but cheers for the link, I'll definately look it up.

Taz - I've ordered the SanDisk Extreme III SDHC 4GB Card with the camera so I hope it comes at the same time. One of the books I've ordered is 'Understanding Exposure' by Brian Peterson which has great reviews and apparently an ideal book to get you out of the point and click way - I'll let you know if its any good.

[tfboy]

Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure is a fantastic book - the photos in it will make you dream and drool at the same time

The Thom guide I refered to is more about getting the most out of the camera. Once you've got your head around the basics of photography (which Peterson's book is awesome for), it's how do you apply the theory best to work with the camera and what tools / tips / tricks can the particular camera give you to measure and take the best possible photos.