This is why the dole should be stopped.

[Funkstar]

I'm a fan of bringing back the workhouse. Provide government assistance to ensure that people out of work can survive at a subsistence level, but make them work for it, even if the work they do isn't that productive, like picking apart rope. Watch how quickly the chavs start picking veggies!

Not advocating work houses (not really sure where I stand on that one), but there us useful work they could do, like taking apart electronics and stripping the insulation off copper cables.

They are working and helping the environment

[G4Z]

The population of Peterborough has been increased by at least 10% by the influx of migrant workers just in the last couple of years. That is a phenomenal increase and one that no community can stand without serious effects.

How exactly is that a problem? why is it that local business and private enterprise are able to cope with this demand but government services are not? Sounds more likea failing with the governement to me. Quite often a place will have a large influx of people, for example in my hown town Boldon, Nissan and a lot of business that support it was built down the road and this lead to a large increase in the population around the local area and I don't see how that is any different to migration from Eurpope.

You only have to walk around the town in the middle of the day to see how many of them are not working.
I suggest you come down here and sit in the benefits office for half an hour before you accuse people of racism.

Sorry, I just don't buy that you contradict yourself in your very next statement. Why on earth would they come here where they are not entitled to any benefits if it wasn't to work?

The biggest problem is the way money is being taken out of our economy. A large proportion of the migrants are here relatively short term, saving every penny they can by living several families to a house and sending a lot of the money back home. This is not an opinion. It is a fact.

I just don't see the problem with that, that happens everyday in city trading. Money comes in, money goes out. The money is there for the taking if your local dolites would get off their arses, what the immigrants do with it is their business and has a positive effect on the economy by keeping local businesses supplied with labour.

I have no problem at all with people coming here and becoming part of the community. Peterborough has a large Asian community and I for one would not be without them. They are here for the long haul and are valuable members of the community. Our nation has been built over centuries by people coming and settling here, enriching the country with ethnic diversity.
Many of the East Europeans do indeed intend to settle here and I welcome them I do object however to people coming here for one or two years and then buggering off home with full pockets.

Just don't see what difference it makes, how long they are here for. Services rendered, money paid whats the problem? The chavs won't do it and these businesses need labour, ask them what they think about immigration.

The only people round here who see the benefit of all this unrestricted immigration are the employers who have a ready source of cheap manual labour. Wages for all kinds of manual work have dropped significantly since the floodgates opened.

Are you kidding me? manual labour is low paid because any idiot can do it, want to earn more learn a skill.

Also, minimum wage has ensured that in fact people doing low skilled jobs now earn quite a bit more than they would otherwise. I would rather we didn't have minimum wage because it devalues my wages due to inflation raising costs for everything. Anyway, how is £7 an hour cheap labour? I wroked for £3.70 an hour less than 10 years ago and when I started full time in 2003 I started on £6 an hour for a comparitively skilled role and I survived on it without any benefits. £7 an hour sounds bloody good to me for this type of work.

[Blitzen]

I'm glad your area isn't one that is affected but as someone who lives in Peterborough I can assure you that it is definitely a problem round here.

The population of Peterborough has been increased by at least 10% by the influx of migrant workers just in the last couple of years. That is a phenomenal increase and one that no community can stand without serious effects.

You only have to walk around the town in the middle of the day to see how many of them are not working.
I suggest you come down here and sit in the benefits office for half an hour before you accuse people of racism.

The biggest problem is the way money is being taken out of our economy. A large proportion of the migrants are here relatively short term, saving every penny they can by living several families to a house and sending a lot of the money back home. This is not an opinion. It is a fact.

I have no problem at all with people coming here and becoming part of the community. Peterborough has a large Asian community and I for one would not be without them. They are here for the long haul and are valuable members of the community. Our nation has been built over centuries by people coming and settling here, enriching the country with ethnic diversity.
Many of the East Europeans do indeed intend to settle here and I welcome them

I do object however to people coming here for one or two years and then buggering off home with full pockets.

The only people round here who see the benefit of all this unrestricted immigration are the employers who have a ready source of cheap manual labour. Wages for all kinds of manual work have dropped significantly since the floodgates opened.

Yep...I agree.
I live about 12 miles from Peterborough, and although the area where i live in is unaffected by the immigrants, i go to Peterborough at least once a week.

Fact is, there are hundreds of Eastern Europeans and Asians sat around doing absolutely nothing accept signing on (and protesting about our RAF in uniform.....that scum makes my blood boil!)
The argument that the UK chavs do the same thing isnt completely valid either. The fact that some of their family have probably contributed to the system they are taking from does ease things somewhat.
The bottom line is that IF you are paying your way then i dont have a problem with who is living in Britain. If you dont work and are of a foreign nationaltiy you should be drop-kicked onto the nearest ferry out of here!

If you ARE from Britain and dont work, you should be made to pick up litter in between signing on days and held to curfew.

There seem to be so many people who want to blame all are woes on immigration and they don't even realise its just a big smoke screen used by the government to cover up their own inadequacies

I think you know as well as everyone else that simply isnt true.
Its just a typical Tory outcry.

but then again i'm not a lazy chav/pikey (i'm a student )

Isnt that sentence contradicting itself

I'm a fan of bringing back the workhouse. Provide government assistance to ensure that people out of work can survive at a subsistence level, but make them work for it, even if the work they do isn't that productive, like picking apart rope. Watch how quickly the chavs start picking veggies!

Just aswell we are a bit more civilised on this side of the pond then

[pollaxe]

If you can't work, the system should support you. If you won't work the system should penalise you.

I had a friend whose father never had a job. He (the father) once told me that it didn't pay him to work, he had all his bills, housing and family paid for by the State and besides, it would get in the way of his hobbies like sport etc. This was back in the 1980s, I've no idea what the system is like now but that made a lasting and very negative impression on me. I'm actually in favour of welfare and free healthcare but inevitably, perhaps, people take the mickey.

[fuddam]

in the uk there are families where THREE GENERATIONS have not had a job, and simply because 'it's not in their interest'!!!! the dole for the healthy / physically capable is bollocks

and real picture is that these lazy gits who don't want to work for 7 quid think they are competing with the eastern europeans, but they are really competing with the whole of Asia, not just europe. kids in school today have to consider the jobs they intend to get are the same jobs millions of hardhardhard working chinese/thai/philipino/vietnamese etc are gunning for. It's just going to get worse.

seen the same thing in Australia, where the asian immigrants come in, do the crappy jobs and then move up the ladder. In the uk, was the same with the Aussies/NZ/Saffers, who years ago used to do all the manual labour, cleaning toilets, working in pubs etc. Now? High flyers in every sector of industry - banking, IT, medicine, etc.

[Blitzen]

If you can't work, the system should support you. If you won't work the system should penalise you.

I had a friend whose father never had a job. He (the father) once told me that it didn't pay him to work, he had all his bills, housing and family paid for by the State and besides, it would get in the way of his hobbies like sport etc. This was back in the 1980s, I've no idea what the system is like now but that made a lasting and very negative impression on me. I'm actually in favour of welfare and free healthcare but inevitably, perhaps, people take the mickey.

I am also in favour of it.
The Welfare State is something to be proud of and is the envy of the world.

Its the people abusing the system and the cranks at the top letting them do it that are wrong!

[nichomach]

I'm a lefty, and consequently very in favour of the welfare state; that said, as a lefty the guiding principle has always been "from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs". It seems to me that there are a lot of people who are being allowed to forget the first part of that equation; they're not fulfilling their side of the deal. If they won't do it voluntarily, then there should be an element of compulsion. The benefits system is there to provide a safety net if you can't work, not an alternative if you don't fancy it.

[Mike Fishcake]

The dole should be stopped? Erm... no!

As with a large proportion of threads in Question Time, it's all too easy to sound off about this sort of thing when you've never been in a situation to potentially affect you in a way like this.

If you've been paying National Insurance - you have the right to take payments off the government to help support you financially. This is (in theory) why it exists. I'll agree that the system should be overhauled, but not stopped!

Just because some people abuse the system doesn't mean the system should be scrapped.

in fact anyone right now who's on the dole, how can you possibly justify it, its not as if there are no jobs, just jobs people aren't willing to do. I think people on the dole, need to be clearly labeled as below par, regardless of how they view themselfs a bathroom sanitation operative is much higher up the food chain, and when looking at jobs, they should have no option but to realise this.

"Anyone" who's on the dole? "clearly labeled as below par"? I'm assuming you're talking about people that have been coasting along on freebies, not people that have been made redundant through no fault of their own (company layoffs, bankruptcies etc)?

I don't think anyone can argue that people not willing to work should be given a kick up the backside, but I'm guessing you're not saying that someone that's worked hard for years and years paying tax should be forced into a job they don't want to do, when their National Insurance payments are there (again, I stress, in theory) to financially back them up if they're ever unfortunate to be out of employment. Denying honest people the right to do this would be like telling someone that's been paying for house insurance and been burgled that they shouldn't have been burgled.

I was reading this earlier too. It should most certainly be stopped for people that are unwilling to find work, when there are so many jobs that they could do, but they're too ******* lazy to even consider. I'd support a government that forced capable people to work.

That's fine as long as, like you said, it's only aimed at those unwilling to work rather than those unable to.

With regard to anyone that believes that all unemployed people should be forced into a job, I don't believe for a moment that anyone on this thread that's been working hard in an office/technical/skilled/management job for years would accept a job picking vegetables. And if anyone thinks they're 100% safe from being made redundant or being in some sort of work-related financial trouble, they're fooling themselves.

If you can't work, the system should support you. If you won't work the system should penalise you.

A reasonable idea in theory, but there are so many factors that need to be taken into account before implementing this. I agree with you in the fact that I am in favour of penalising people that quite obviously take advantage of the system, but not everything is completely clear cut. One person's idea of someone taking the mickey, someone else may consider to be fair. There is no clearly definable line.

I thought this thread was about work-not race.

I don't know why you're surprised - give it time and any thread on Hexus, whether it's about rolling pins, car tyres, motherboards, velocriraptors or ornithology can dissolve into rants about how immigrants, muslims and OMG POLITIKAL CORECTNESS is spoiling Our Green And Pleasant Land. Sometimes I feel like submitting comments to spEak You’re bRanes !

I think we should send all the chavs over to Poland and keep their workers.

Although that's unfair and unworkable - in a purely selfish way I really like that idea

There seem to be so many people who want to blame all are woes on immigration

People love a scapegoat. If it wasn't immigrants, it would be someone else to blame.

There really should be a cut off time after which they should have to accept ANY work that is offered.

What time would that be though? What works for one situation doesn't always work in another situation.

There are too many people for whom living on benefits is the easy way out.

I agree with that.

I'm a fan of bringing back the workhouse. Provide government assistance to ensure that people out of work can survive at a subsistence level, but make them work for it, even if the work they do isn't that productive, like picking apart rope. Watch how quickly the chavs start picking veggies!

The workhouse? The Workhouse? Dear God... Are we in the 18th Century?

Like I've said above, it's all too easy to throw ideas into the air, but some of the ideas in this thread are impractical, unworkable and obviously made by people who've never been unfortunate enough to be made redundant. I guarantee that any of the people talking about forcing all unemployed people to dance for coins would change their mind in a split second if they had the bad luck to be handed their P45.

Defining exactly who's taking the mickey and who's genuinely unfortunate can be a tricky thing. Some of them are obvious, but many aren't as clear cut as you think.

[pollaxe]

My father was unemployed for a while in the late 1980s (through no fault of his own) and that wasn't a good time for any of us; so I do have some empathy when it comes to people who are out of work. I've been fortunate that I've not been unemployed or had to claim benefits yet.

I'm all in favour of a welfare system and the like but it shouldn't be geared that it encourages irresponsibility which I think large proportions of it do - got 4 kids by 4 different fathers? Straight to the top of the housing list. I know it's not easy for people on the breadline and I wouldn't want to swap with them by any means. However, society's a two-way street. If you take, somehow you should put something back. The father of my friend (who claimed it didn't pay him to work) should not have been in the position where he was able to choose. I've known other people who've worked and milked the system for every penny they could get and thought they were very cool and clever for doing so. They used to laugh at me trying to earn an honest crust and thought that I was a mug. Perhaps they were right?

Of course it's not easy to identify who's taking the mickey and who isn't but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to get a more discerning system in place, surely?

[Mike Fishcake]

My father was unemployed for a while in the late 1980s (through no fault of his own) and that wasn't a good time for any of us; so I do have some empathy when it comes to people who are out of work. I've been fortunate that I've not been unemployed or had to claim benefits yet.

I'm all in favour of a welfare system and the like but it shouldn't be geared that it encourages irresponsibility which I think large proportions of it do - got 4 kids by 4 different fathers? Straight to the top of the housing list. I know it's not easy for people on the breadline and I wouldn't want to swap with them by any means. However, society's a two-way street. If you take, somehow you should put something back. The father of my friend (who claimed it didn't pay him to work) should not have been in the position where he was able to choose. I've known other people who've worked and milked the system for every penny they could get and thought they were very cool and clever for doing so. They used to laugh at me trying to earn an honest crust and thought that I was a mug. Perhaps they were right?

Of course it's not easy to identify who's taking the mickey and who isn't but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to get a more discerning system in place, surely?

That's probably one of the most sensible posts in this thread so far.

[TheAnimus]

"Anyone" who's on the dole? "clearly labeled as below par"? I'm assuming you're talking about people that have been coasting along on freebies, not people that have been made redundant through no fault of their own (company layoffs, bankruptcies etc)?

Personally i'd say its very easy to determine who's abusing it, and who is generally in a short term posistion of un-employment.

Take me, i do a 'skilled' job, getting such a job requires a hudge amount of luck and technical knowledge. Say the company i work for goes under in a big way, i'm paid quite a few times more than the average 2 year out of uni CS student. Would it be right for me to sit on my arse, claiming the doll for 2 years waiting for another gravy train to come along?

I don't think it would be at all, even thou in tax and NI i've paid more than enough into the kitty, for the government still to 'up' on the whole my 21+ life.

So when there are jobs abundant, regardless of skill level, with the minimum wage preventing exploitation (giggle, intervention in a freemarket.....)

Then why not say after 6 months, thats your lot?

Or do you think it would be right for me to refuse work for years of my life saying sorry mate, i'm not going to do anything until a highly paid mostly sitting in a rather comfy chair whilst ranting on hexus job comes along?

[Lucio]

Or do you think it would be right for me to refuse work for years of my life saying sorry mate, i'm not going to do anything until a highly paid mostly sitting in a rather comfy chair whilst ranting on hexus job comes along?

The simplistic answer comes back "no, you don't have a right to be happy at work"

But imagine that the system was making you work as a potato picker, sitting there day after day for basically no more money than you'd get on the dole. Basically, through no fault of your own, you've become a slave and once you're in that position, how can you be sure that you'll escape it back into a job that uses your skills?

I don't think there's a right answer out there and with any system it can be exploited by at least some people.

[chuckskull]

If you can't work, the system should support you. If you won't work the system should penalise you.

Completely right. I'm on the "dole", but not out of choice. If I had a choice believe me I'd take the £2000 a month for picking fruit. Thats about 4 times what I get now.

People do abuse the system. Immigrant or not.

For all those saying welfare should be scrapped, without it I would be homeless and starving. Not to mention that without welfare I would not have received any treatment, without which there is a good chance I would have killed myself or worse someone else. This is not something I'm proud of, but I have to accept that it is a fact.

I'd also like to add; If you work, you get paid, whether you're black, white, brown, yellow or bright effin' green. The failures in our system are no excuse for the thinly veiled racism that seems to follow this issue everywhere it goes.

[nichomach]

^^^^

[G4Z]

Right, just going to clarify my opinion on this. I am in favour of the welfare state, I think its a good idea. However I also think that those people taking the piss are ruining the safety net that one day some of us might need. I also think that unemployment should be linked to earnings, if you paid a lot in you should expect to get a lot back. Of course this never works in theory because our government does not in fact use any of that money for its stated purpose. NI does not go towards welfare and road tax does not go towards roads. It all gets dumped in the treasury where they use it to start a war or two.

I think you know as well as everyone else that simply isnt true.
Its just a typical Tory outcry.

errr... no I think it is true, that is why I said it. I even gave examples of the government playing the boogey man immigration card on the ID/National identity register scam. I am not sure 'everyone else' agrees with you to be quite honest, maybe if your definition of everyone else consists of daily mail and sun readers. Oh and for the record, I have never voted Tory in my life and the prospect of them in power is only slightly less horrifying than Nu-Labour in power. Only slightly though, they are both a set of authoritarian, self-serving, selfish morons.

[G4Z]

Oh yeah, one other thing I want to add.

Can any of you that are asserting that immigrants are claiming benefits supply some evidence for that please, as the last I heard they were not entitled to anything.