fahrenheit 9/11

[dkmech]

This could probably go into audio visual forum, but its not just the cinematic qualities of this film i want to discuss, its the message.

Watched it yesterday. And i suggest those who haven't seen it go and watch it. Probably before you read on as there may be spoilers. Not that this is the kind of movie where spoilers are much of an issue.

The things that happened in america, the corruption of the bushes and their mates - its so appauling.
The way they brainwashed everyone to fear terrorism and yet only have 8 policemen on duty for a whole state. It was horrifying.

I won't write more now as f1 is starting, but please do tell me what you think if you saw it. I shall be back in a couple of hours.

[Shogun]

I see the propaganda is getting to you.

[dkmech]

Why, are you a republican?

Bush was getting to me way before i saw the documentary. And its a disgrace, whether you watch the film or not.

[Shogun]

Not everything you see is true The film maker has been known to be anti american for a long time. Kinda makes it a bit biased don't you think?

[dkmech]

Biased - maybe. I don't think he is anti-american though. Being anti-corruption doesn't mean being anti-american. Being against government doesn't mean being against the country. With a close run election with a near 50/50 split surely half a population who voted for the losing candidate is against the one who won. Does that make them anti-american? Many people in uk are unhappy with Tony Blair. Does it make them anti-british?

Do you think the facts that Moore mentions are not true, made up? The way he presents them may be extreme, but I don't expect he is inserting blatant lies there, do you? However Smokey and his bandits with "yeah, he got loads of WMDs right over there"... "north east west and south" doesn't sound like truth to me.

Yes, asking senators to enlist their children is a bit cheeky, and noone expected them to do that, but that bit was just a bit of fun.

[ACiD303]

Biased - maybe. I don't think he is anti-american though. Being anti-corruption doesn't mean being anti-american. Being against government doesn't mean being against the country. With a close run election with a near 50/50 split surely half a population who voted for the losing candidate is against the one who won. Does that make them anti-american? Many people in uk are unhappy with Tony Blair. Does it make them anti-british?

imo, Michael Moore is more patriotic than a lot of Americans because he can look hard at his country and what its doing to itself and the rest of the world. He can take an objective look and say what is wrong with the country. He's just not a republican and not right-winged - but hey, freedom of speech right?

Do you think the facts that Moore mentions are not true, made up? The way he presents them may be extreme, but I don't expect he is inserting blatant lies there, do you? However Smokey and his bandits with "yeah, he got loads of WMDs right over there"... "north east west and south" doesn't sound like truth to me.

He's not inserting lies, what he says is the truth, but it's more like what he omits rather than lies. There are holes in this, I wont deny the film is propagandic, it's only real purpose is to swing a percentage enough of voters so that the same fiasco of Bush being elected doesnt happen again. I detest Bush as well, this film didnt make me think anything different of him, you've heard him say dumb stuff before, he's an idiot pure and simple. As a documentary, it does suck as there is no other side, but since most of America has been fed either republican propaganda, and right-winged BS, this somewhat brings around the balance (or other side) to the whole equation . . .

Yes, asking senators to enlist their children is a bit cheeky, and noone expected them to do that, but that bit was just a bit of fun.

Actually, you expected more of this from him, its what he does in his documentaries (well, Roger & Me and Bowling for Columbine)- this is what really disappointed me about Farenheit 9/11. Makes the film less convicting.

[IBM]

I haven't seen the film yet, but intend to as soon as possible. It hardly matters though, since I've been anti-Bush for a long time. I was in the US just after 9/11 and then again for six months last year, and what's happening over there is disgusting.

The whole anti-bush contigency is terrified of speaking out against what they see as tyranny (Bush's tyranny, not some middle eastern dictator) in case some middle-America bible bashing patriot brands them unpatriotic. It's really sickening, this 'patriotic' oneupmanship that is little more than a facade for the 'less than bright' to go around accusing people of being less than american, whatever the hell that is. Is exactly the same mass hysteria people saw during Macarthy period...you'd think they'd learn their lesson, but no...

Did anyone see the comments recently by Elton John, about how everybody in media is terrified of speaking out against Bush, because Bush is controlled by big business, and big business owns all the studios (music and film) and all the news channels, and they'll dump anyone who speaks out. Thanks going out to Susan Serandon, Tim Robbins, Martin Sheen, and Shaun Penn for having balls.

Lastly, for all those people who think that MM is wrong, every fact he quotes is just that, a fact, factual, true and established. Okay, so he's biased, and doesn't tell everything, and certainly doesn't present both sides of the case....

...BUT that doesn't really matter, 'cause no matter how many sides there are to the story, all the evidence is damning, incredibly damning, starting with the theft of an election, to the manipulation of the media to achieve his own (and his father's) long term aims, I mean, come on, 'Saddam supports Al-Qaeda'...it was a known fact that Al-Qaeda was actively pursuing the downfall of Saddam, and he dedicated lots of resources to wiping out the terrorists influence in Iraq...

Enough ranting I think.

Back on topic, I think I'll go watch the movie before I say anything more ..hehe...

[klarrix]

*COUGH*questiontime*COUGH*

[Theo]

Whilst I enjoyed Bowling for Columbine a lot, I found Fahrenheit 9/11 to be a tedious pile of rubbish that would have been more effective had it been released 2 years ago. Didn't enjoy it at all, really.

I was a big fan of The Awful Truth, but since then Michael Moore's anti-American spittings are getting quite tiresome. Kind of like a 30/40 year old person "sticking it to the man", in my opinion.

[Shogun]

but since then Michael Moore's anti-American spittings are getting quite tiresome. Kind of like a 30/40 year old person "sticking it to the man", in my opinion.

Thanks

[Theo]

Wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, chap. The point of that comment is that they should have realised, by then, that there is no point.

Whatever Moore brings out next isn't going to make one bit of difference. You can complain about having the squits all you like, there's nothing you can do about it.

[dkmech]

I have to say i never thought about "enjoying" the movie. Some things are not there to be enjoyed, but are still important.

With regards to being afraid to speak up - there are bits of the movie that address that.

I still can't see how MM is anti-american. Since when is GWB=America? The fact that the film had problems being released even though it appears to be quite popular and should make money and won an award already is quite telling. Who owns the film studios... Not the poor people on the streets, thats for sure.

I found Fahrenheit 9/11 to be a tedious pile of rubbish that would have been more effective had it been released 2 years ago

how do you imagine that happening? the war only happened 1 year ago.

Whatever your opinion of MM may be, surely there is no denying that what happened and is happening now is not right.

[Stoo]

The thing is, he *isn't* being anti-american in the slightest, most Americans freedoms have been eroded away to not much at all over the past few years, Moore is just pointing it out to the brain-washed masses..

There is patriotism, and blind patriotism to the point of being zombies.. You only have to watch the American media to see what's happened there. Virtually all the news agencies push out what the whitehouse has given them, rather than being real journalists and finding the true stories.

Americans that came over here when the Iraq war/invasion started couldn't believe the difference between europen reporting and what amounted to the extremist pro american flag waving back home..

[dkmech]

Well, if this movie ensures that the democrats win the election and bush is not reelected then it was not for nothing.

[myth]

How many of you live in the US?

[Stoo]

Don't have to, we have *real* media that lets us know what's going on in the world