fahrenheit 9/11

[Bazzlad]

Even if they HAVE built the thing, it doesn't affect my argument about Bias in the slightest, other than the fact I'm slightly out of date.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

[G4Z]

actually, yes the pipleine is heading there, but its all funded by a big american oil company... do you reckon thats because there is oil at one end of the pipe and a port at the other...?

also, I did read the link on MM, there are some good points there but given that the writer has some very similar views to him its hard to understand where the real hate he seems to have comes from. I dont think that the article is doing anything but pointing out the inconsitencies, well fair enough but he never seems to say that moore doesnt have a point.

[Bazzlad]

The pipe is heading there. It isn't there.

The hate he has is the same as the hate I have.
He's an AWFUL reporter.
Infact he's a disgrace to the word reporter. He should be relabeled a political film maker. What he made instead of a fair side by side view, was a biased controversial ticket sale raising coup.

Good points, badly made. Simple as that.

[G4Z]

errrrr... he is a political film maker, not a reporter...

[Bazzlad]

He sells the film as "Uncovering the lies" from the bush administration. He sold this film as a "Documentary". He portrays it in a reportive style.

He presents a completely biased view as gospel truth, his arguments have HUGE flaws in them, the pro-Moore lobby cry at the one sided right wing media, then praise one-sided left wing media.

Where's the middle? No where.

I think you're still trying to "Witch hunt" me as a Pro War, Pro Bush, anti-moore type. The problem you'd face is I'm not.

I dislike Mm a hell of a lot. He made this film knowing the backlash, knowing the contraversy, knowing he had a strong Anti-Bush audience, knowing all of that he had a sure fire box office hit on his hands.

I'm sure he made the film for the right reasons. But in making a fundamentally flawed film he, in my view, weakened his point by making it so easy for others to rubbish it instantly. He should have reported even handedly WHILE making his point. Simple as that.

[Rave]

I've just got back from seeing it, and I must admit that it's not really a good film. Well, it's a good film but a bad documentary. If it wasn't such an important issue, it'd just be fun to watch, but this is a huge missed opportunity.

I'm sure he made the film for the right reasons. But in making a fundamentally flawed film he, in my view, weakened his point by making it so easy for others to rubbish it instantly. He should have reported even handedly WHILE making his point. Simple as that.

Yes, that's the problem with it. Even I got tired of the constant cross-cutting of out-of-context shots of Bush designed purely to make him look stupid. The problem is that he goes at Bush for entirely the wrong angle. The Hitchens article is a good read, but it fails to point that out explicitly. The strongest moment of the film for me is when he overlays images of Bush pretending to be behind a strong military while detailing the cuts in pay and benefits for soldiers and veterans that he pushed for. The footage of the tragedy that was the Iraq invasion is utterly horrifying, but really the issue is how the Bush administration has set out to systematically screw over the poorest 90-odd% of American society.

BTW, even though I agree with you that it's not a good film, you should still go and see it. The gun camera footage of what appear to be fleeing Iraqis being ripped to shreds by what I assume is either an Apache or M2 Bradley chaingun at once gives the lie to the assumption that the US Army can ever carry out a humane occupation. Next time America starts a war of 'Liberation' you'll know what's going to happen.

Rich :¬)

[Stoo]

The thing is, it's not really aimed at clued up foreign audiences, it's squarely aimed at the brainwashed swing voters, and it really needs to be constructed this way for them to get the message..

He could have really turned the thumbscrews and gone even further but he didn't, it's purely a tool to be used as a wake up call to the people that can make a difference this year..

[Rave]

The thing is, it's not really aimed at clued up foreign audiences, it's squarely aimed at the brainwashed swing voters, and it really needs to be constructed this way for them to get the message..

He could have really turned the thumbscrews and gone even further but he didn't, it's purely a tool to be used as a wake up call to the people that can make a difference this year..

Well, I've just come back from holiday. Among our party was an American friend of my wife's family. He's just retired after a career which started in the Navy and then continued through 30 years working in a steel mill. In short, he's (bar a bit of racism and homophobia which is probably shared by most Americans his age) exactly the kind of decent, hardworking American who the Bush administration are doing their damndest to screw over- and yet he thinks Bush is 'classy', and his daughter apparently wrote to Bush thanking him for fighting the war against terror on their behalf.

Fahrenheit 9/11, I suspect, would not be the film to pull the scales from his eyes. That is a real shame.

Rich :¬)

[Moonshade]

Now I've seen the movie, I saw it today. And I must say that I really liked the movie, alot. I have to agree alot with dkmech! I have been anti-bush for a very long time now, even before the release of 9/11 but this was truly showing that the politic-part in the states is disgusting!
I can't understand how anyone would like to have Bush, as a president for the united states, after seeing that movie.

How that mother in the end lost his son, and they told her to blame Al-Quaida for it, as she said: "Al-Quaida didn't ask my son to go to Iraq". How young boys got brainwashed when the marine-soilders told them that they could help them to be as Shaggy, or become a really great basketball player.

It was awful! A really strong movie, not easy to handle.
All the kids that died, for what? Nothing, nothing at all!

And that in the beginning..when the afro-americans didn't get anything signed from a senator. :/

A very great movie, people should really see it!

Moore is good!
//Moonshade.

[Flash]

Fahrenheit 9/11, I suspect, would not be the film to pull the scales from his eyes. That is a real shame.

Rich :¬)

a fanatical righty will never be swung films can empower the imagination but not control the mind

I agree Moore is using this film just to remove Bush from power but maybe he should be investigating Kerry if he does get elected rather than pottering about with his Bushisms as he may get bit in the ass!

I hate Bush and thought the film/documentary was powerful very well filmed and had a good soundtrack. It did justice to try and influence Americans but us Brits and many other nations will not see it in the same perspective.

[Galant]

my honest view? not as entertaining as Bowling was.

And isn't that just the centre of the whole thing?

Mr. Moore understands the influence of entertainment media, he knows the power it wields amongst a large section of western society. The plain truth in this matter is that there is a very large number of people who care more about how something is said rather than what is said. They are easily impressed, and if you can be funny and appear self-critical whilst making criticism in other areas, you've got them.

No offence intended to anyone, but a look down this thread shows some who've done some outside research, but what I see a lot of is people who pre-decided they were anti-bush and then through F 9/11 find that all their 'suspicions' are confirmed.

I would simply say to anyone who feels strongly about their political stance but who cannot cite any sources or reasoning beyond Fahrenheit 9/11 and it's ilk - truly think open mindedly, don't let propagandist entertainment form your thinking, and make logic and wide research be your foundation.

Wherever you come out, if you're going to think strongly about something, try to make sure you have the reasoning to do so.

Oh and as for the US media being all pro-Bush, the truth is that where news-media is concerned Fox is the ONLY pro-Bush channel. CNN, NBC, ABC etc. are all opposed.

As far as TV is concerned, Bush doesn't control the media, quite the opposite, US TV is typically left-wing.

[DR]

I would like to see this film - any ideas where I can get it

[dkmech]

Not really. Might come out on dvd soon. I wouldn't dare think of suggesting anything else. Cough.

[Flash]

Cinema me old china!

just dont take a camcorder with ya

[dkmech]

Is it still being shown?

Actually. We have a cinema at University which shows movies with some delay relative to release dates. They mainly do arty stuff/influencial/etc movies but occasionally do other stuff too. Check out any cinemas like that near you and maybe find out if they plan to show it.

[DR]

No where near me is showing it