Smacking Children- should it be banned?

[Akwaaba]

What I would support, however, is more (much more) effort and funding in the field of educating parents with child-rearing skills. If parents weren't dropped in the deep end with little or no support or education, perhaps the incidence of a smack would be more restricted to when it's really needed to get the message across, and not used inappropriately or in anger, which it never should be.

Agreed - but the education should already be provided, through parents, friends and other relations. As well as any religious groups and other community groups already in place.

This obviously isn't happening a great deal, because this is where most of the health, social, personal & citizenship education should be given. I.e. don't expect schools to be effective in this type of education.

Why Not - cause quite a large proportion of the pupils that need this education have become disaffected with school (and life) by the time that they are mature enough for this type of education.

[Sinizter]

Remove privileges, have a naughty corner/step, give choices (if you continue to do X then Y will happen), instead of saying don't say do etc (there are many others - maybe others will add to list list - as it maybe useful to hear what techniques other use instead of smacking

even then I still smack, but haven't felt the need to for years with the 5 year old, and months for the 3 year old. Mainly because routines and expectations of behaviour have now been set

Yes, they are steps before the smacking. And there things me and my brother have done when we were kids even with all those threats on our heads ....

Without smacking you'll just have a bunch of spoilt undisciplined kids who will do whatever they want whenever they want.

Yes smacking alone might not stop those problems, but will certainly reduce it - if used at the right time.

[Saracen]

Personally, I think a large part of the difficulty is that the way to deal with a naughty child depends on the situation, and the child, which makes it hard to "educate" parents - they have to constantly assess what's going on, and think on their feet, as it were. A sharp word might do it, the naughty chair (etc) might be right, or even sometimes just ignoring the child works. A child that plays up at the table might, for instance, just be attention-seeking, especially if there's non-regulars present and the child feels he/she isn't getting the attention they're used to.

In that situation, just turning the child's chair (young child, in this case) away from the table for a couple of minutes, then asking them if they're willing to "be nice" and turning them back if they agree. In other words, don't pander to the attention-seeking by giving the attention they're acting-up for. In the right circumstances, and with a child of the right age, this works far, FAR better than losing temper and ending up smacking the child.

But at least a part of child-rearing is tactical warfare. The child is seeking to establish its place, and boundaries, and the parent is best served by carefully considered psychological approach to situations.

And, just occasionally, that considered approach might be a smack.

[PEN]

For every 'fcuked up' kid that resulted from smacking, 10 yobs/losers/whatever are produced because of the lack of it.

What he said...... - imho of course

PEN

[autopilot]

The fact that there are many more yobs on the streets has little to do with smacking, or lack of it. In fact the yobs are more likely to have come from a family that uses smacking than a kid thats not causing any problems.

The anti social problems we are having right now are caused by many many factors, socially, politically and economically. The world is a very very difference place now, it's not just smacking that's changed. God if it was as easy as that! The fact that the government are soft as ****, the courts can't be bothered and the police are too busy filling in forms to give a crap does not help. Then there are lack of good role models, or should i say and increase of bad ones, a failing education and social support system, increasing class divides, the appalling state of the media which just encourages bad behaviour, cultural changes, exploding population... the list goes on and on and on. Blaming a lack of smacking is absurd and also counter productive IMO.

My opinion, which i will always be open minded about and i may be wrong, is based on 4.5 years of working as a team leader at one of the UK's leading child care centres with units all over the UK. I often had to physically restrain kids onto the floor, but it was never as behaviour modification tool, punishment or to teach them a "lesson", it was an absolutely necessary, and last resort, to keep everyone safe from further harm. The real work and healing happened after the restraint. I worked with some of the most violent and damaged kids, social workers, specialised teachers, psychologists and therapists. Half our work was trying to repair some of the damage down by physical punishment.

I went there thinking the lack of physical punishment from kids had a significant contribution to societies ills. I now realise that it's the other way around and that there are too many dangerous yobs on the street that were taught by their parents at a very early age that the way to react to something you dont like is to not reason or think, but the strike out.




Interesting debate though chaps

[Saracen]

.... I now realise that it's the other way around and that there are too many dangerous yobs on the street that were taught by their parents at a very early age that the way to react to something you dont like is to not reason or think, but the strike out.

I agree with your earlier conclusion that the anti-social behaviour we see today has numerous and complex socio-economic causes, but I think it's also simplistic to blame it on kids being taught by their parents to strike out.

Go back say 40 years, and the prevalence of being slippered or even caned in school, and having a fatherly strap applied was FAR higher than it is right now, so if it was kids being taught to strike out by parental discipline, it would have been far worse it those days. Yet the incidence of the type of anti-social behaviour, vandalism and plain obnoxiousness that are all too common today were rare or unknown then.

No, it's more than that, and in my view, the single biggest factor is likely to be the materialistic nature of society today. Putting it bluntly, most people have far more in the way of material possessions than they did a few decades back. Go back to the '60s and many families were living hand-to-mouth, ekeing the pay packet out to buy groceries for the week in what was still recently post-rationing austerity, struggling to buy much in the way of kids birthday presents and a lot of things, including clothes and toys, were hand-me-downs from elder siblings. And you don't have to go back much beyond that to get to the point where TV didn't exist, let alone computer games or mobile phones, where cars were the exclusive province of the rich and where rationing ensured that food was far from plentiful, and a rich variety of it was unheard-of, as were holidays abroad ... or even holidays at all, in many cases.

These days, because the average standard of living is so much higher, it's much more obvious when others have things you don't. And people want it, and all too often, aren't prepared to work for it ir wait for it.

Much bad behaviour is blamed on "boredom", because they're "no facilities". What facilities these idiots think kids had 40 years ago beats me, but I can guarantee (from memory) that if we wanted fun, we had to go out an invent it, because other than perhaps school activities or a local scout movement, there was naff-all "facilities". You certainly wouldn't get mugged for your mobile phone, because there was no such thing. An argument can be made that the advances in technology have led to the existence of a lot of things that people want, and covet, and that provides an incentive that didn't exist when such goodies didn't exist.

In my view, much bad behaviour comes from an over-inflated view of expectation, and expecting things to be given as a right. The more people have, the more they come to expect. Not a very nice reflection of society or the human psyche, is it?

[autopilot]

Saracen, apart from the fact that we disagree on the benefits of smacking, i completely agree with everything you said mate.

I think it's also simplistic to blame it on kids being taught by their parents to strike out.

I was'nt really, just trying to illustrate that i believe corporal punishment has more negative effects than positive.

[vrykyl]

Smacking never did me any harm....quickest way to teach me cause and effect as a youngster...

[iranu]

There is a very good article here in the Times that ties in nicely with what is being discussed.

I am not a parent but I do witness the huge time and effort that is required to rear children from a couple of friends. People don't seem to realise that children are capable of understanding at a very early age even if they are not capable of expressing themselves through speech.

On Monday I was helping this family move, they have a 3 1/2 year old daughter, Amy and a 1 1/2 year old boy, Ben. I was loading the lorry up and Ben came around to see what was going on. He had a "Bumble" character from the fifi flower tots in his hands (his favourite). He came back 2 mins later sans Bumble. There would be hell to pay if Bumble got lost so I asked him where Bumble was. He replied, "fifi flower house". So a few minutes later I checked and sure enough there was Bumble safe and sound. I was a bit surprised.

Whilst young children can comprehend they cannot understand why something is naughty. You can say not to do it but they won't understand why. Smacking them simply makes them confused, it is better to try to explain to them the why and reassure them.

Imho smacking should only be used as an absolute last resort when everything else has been tried and it should only be used on children who understand why they are being punished that way.

[Saracen]

.......

I was'nt really, just trying to illustrate that i believe corporal punishment has more negative effects than positive.

Maybe so. One of the problems is that that's difficult to quantify. Another is that while I could, and would, agree with your conclusions about the lesson a child learns in relation to physical abuse, in that the abuser often turns out to have been abused, there's a line between abuse and an occasional smack and I'm not convinced the same principle extends that far.

Also, it's very difficult to scientifically assess the relative positive and negative impacts, and even more difficult to relate that to childhood experiences, if for no reason other than that those experiences in relation to kids that experienced smacking, not abuse, will be anecdotal only. While it may sometimes be possible to refer back to hospital reports, police reports etc for kids that experienced serious abuse, for those that were simply smacked, there will be little or no such impartial evidence.

If over-used, or used in the wrong situations or for the wrong reason, a smack may be counter-productive. But that doesn't mean that it is always so. Personally, I don't believe we should deprive the parent that uses a smack occasionally, and for good reason, from that option because others don't use it correctly. Instead, t5rain others that it's a last resort not a first step, and train them in other methods (like the naughty chair) that will not only often be more effective, but more appropriate. But don't ban it completely. I see no convincing case for that, especially given that those parents that don't believe in it simply don't do it. But that doesn't mean they have a right to foist their beliefs, in the absence of convincing evidence, on others. A moral objection, as many have, is enough to determine their own actions but not adequate to dictate to others.

[Scientist]

Legislation that make learning Psychology compulsory, that'll help.

[mightymouse]

a lot of the anti-social behaviours in this country is from the lack of a quick smack at home. i dont mean abuse but punish with moderation. i came from a family where i will get a slap on the face as soon as my mouth utter the wrong syllable. Kids nowadays do not know what respect is even though they tend to say it a lot. a lot of them just need a good smacking at home and then they will learn how to honour respect.

[PEN]

As MM says, it's a respect thing. It's cause and effect, it's family.

We're waaaay too soft for our own good. Our society is going down the swannie and yet we pussyfoot around at the risk we may offend someone.

It's crazy.

PEN

[Mossy]

as discussed children need to be disciplined especially how peolpe these days have no respect for anything.

Corporal punishment back in schools FTW

[kalniel]

Corporal punishment back in schools FTW

My old headteacher once recieved a letter from a parent suggesting they should bring back capital punishment We hope it was a genuine mistake..

[Lee H]

My old headteacher once recieved a letter from a parent suggesting they should bring back capital punishment We hope it was a genuine mistake..

I'm all for bringing it back in total honesty.

What happens at schools for example is you have 1 child that is a right pain in the arse to put it bluntly. Now once this child acts the goat, goes round being a pain and nothing is done this inscribes the message to the rest of the children that it's okay to do what he is doing as you do not get punished for it.

Why do you think society is in such of a mess at the moment with kids all under 18 going round stabbing each other, happy slapping and killing people left right and centre?

I know I had a few clips round the lughole when I was a kid and this taught me not to push the boundries like they try to do today.