View Poll Results: What do you think of the budget?

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  • vote now, pay later. It's a scam to calm the electorate

    10 37.04%
  • dull Brown, stealth taxes to fill the economic hole when no one's looking

    5 18.52%
  • nothing dramatic for the new guy to take over.

    2 7.41%
  • Gord is a genius, we'll all miss him terribly.

    10 37.04%
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Thread: The last budget

  1. #1
    Senior Member RVF500's Avatar
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    The last budget

    Well, I've already been tapped up for my 3% stamp duty (not even my soliciter could tell me where that money goes to) which makes that the most expensive set of house keys I've ever purchased. I'd love to see a property under £120 000 in Sussex. One worth living in. But then we'd never vote labour anyway so why bother to pander to the rich southerner?

    I'm not going to be due for a £200 rebate on my council tax. But I don't want that. I'd rather have things like streetlighting, a police response time that can be measured with something quicker than an hour glass. Some public services would be nice. Currently I think we have some of the most expensive bin bags in the UK. I don't see a lot else for my council tax. The poor Londoners will have to stump up even more if London gets the olympics as significant money is proposed to be raised through council tax increase. I'm glad the pensioners have got a break. A massive £16 per month. 3 packets of cigarettes if you are a smoking pensioner. Make that 2 20's and a pack of 10. Though I wonder who will take up the slack for the rebates? Don't pensioners already get free bus travel?....I guess not.

    Tax credits for the low paid. Ok, I'll admit I don't know much about that. Perhaps I should have done as when I was out of work I didn't get anything. I was offered £50 a week dole at which point I laughed and didn't bother to research any further instead putting all my energy into creating work for myself.

    Inheritance tax. I'm not dead so that doesn't really affect me. However. My kids will have to stump up for that if I was to drop dead tomorrow. On the house alone. Now, as I understand it. None of the inheritance can be liquidated to pay the tax bill and if you don't raise the cash to pay the bill the estate reverts to the crown. £275 000 catches a significant section of the population now. For a tax that was designed to hit only the very well off it hits a lot of normal hardworking families.

    But all in all it was a pretty dull budget. Nothing much for anyone really but no one got raped either. So the question is. Is it a 'vote now pay later' budget? After all petrol duty, for example, is frozen until September, after which the govt will have most of it's 4 year term before it has to worry about pandering to the great unwashed again. Maybe it's a typical dull Brown budget with stealthy taxes slipped in along the way.

    Paid maternity leave to rise to a year. That's nice. Who pays for it? As a small business I have been put off hiring because of the costs. I couldn't afford to pay someone to be at home for a year. Even at a reduced rate. Hence if I was to recognise a need to hire I would be automatically wary of hiring a woman of child bearing age. Except maybe on a rolling contract basis. This will do nothing to aid the cause of equality for women in the workplace. As for paternity leave. Pffft, bonding with the newborn? Most blokes would take the chance for an extra few rounds of Call of Duty while being paid.

    Why should we pay students to stay in school? Who pays for kids to stay at school til they are 18? If kids want to go on to higher education then perhaps it should be made easier for them to get grants which will be paid back at low interest rates capped at inflation for example. Instead of just handing out dole when they turn 17.

    £3.7bn on defence. There's a nice down payment on a Eurofighter. If it's ever completed. Ohhh...and and extra £400 mill for defence slotted in...ummm...We can buy some new boots too, or maybe a couple of missiles for when we finish paying for that Eurofighter. Failing that it can pay the airfares for the army roulemont of Iraq, Bosnia, Ireland, 2 weeks leave and back to Iraq again.

    ISA's given extended credit. Why did they screw with the PEP in the first place?

    More private houses on council estates....why?

    More debt reduction for 19 countries. 19 new Lear jets for some banana republic despots then (oops...too cynical?) Ummm....who pays for that? We could buy the rest of that Eurofighter, or maybe some more boots on the defense budget on that.

    No tax increase on small/medium cars....a Porche is nice and small Get that nasty big Mondeo taxed up

    VAT returns tobe simplified for small firms.....How much did you turn over last month?.....Give it to us.

    The bottom line here is it's half 1 in the morning. I'm working a night shift and I'm bored. There are some good things but I'll let someone else highlight those or we'll have nothing to argue about.
    Last edited by RVF500; 17-03-2005 at 03:12 AM.
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  2. #2
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    This Budget in short:

    Step 1: Blag a bit more cash out of the big oil companies, by getting them to pay at different times of the year, freeing up a large wadge of cash.

    Step 2: Give afformentioned wadge of cash to pensioners, people with a gammy leg, and puppies.

    Step 3: Hope that this is enough to get your average Daily Mirror reader to vote Labour again.

    I'll go with Michael Howard, its a vote now, pay later budget. Not so much a scam as a rather transparent, semi-botched 'vote for me, I am nice to old people' budget.

    Who do voters like more; oil companies or old women who knit? Its the old folks. So, create the impression you've moved heaven and earth to give them all loads of cash (when thats far from the case) and the 'master plan' is complete.

    What a genius.

    Still, I'm sure you'll all be there, bleating as you tick the Labour box come the general election. Sheep... so easily fooled, don't you find?
    Last edited by Stewart; 17-03-2005 at 11:29 AM.

  3. #3
    'ave it. Skii's Avatar
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    Usual cr@p

    Still another year goes by in rented accomodation, can't buy our own place because in this glorious time of sustained economic growth the prices are too high, bugger the problem of stamp duty.

    As usual this budget has done nothing for me, apart from making us pay 7p more on fags.

    ain't life grand

  4. #4
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVF500
    Well, I've already been tapped up for my 3% stamp duty (not even my soliciter could tell me where that money goes to)
    Pretty sure it goes to the exchequer?

    which makes that the most expensive set of house keys I've ever purchased. I'd love to see a property under £120 000 in Sussex. One worth living in. But then we'd never vote labour anyway so why bother to pander to the rich southerner?
    Why indeed?

    Tax credits for the low paid. Ok, I'll admit I don't know much about that. Perhaps I should have done as when I was out of work I didn't get anything. I was offered £50 a week dole at which point I laughed and didn't bother to research any further instead putting all my energy into creating work for myself.
    Up to you. Claiming the dole is pretty easy though, so it's not the government's fault if you were too lazy to do it. I don't see how recieving an extra £50 a week stops you putting all your energy into finding a job.

    Inheritance tax. I'm not dead so that doesn't really affect me. However. My kids will have to stump up for that if I was to drop dead tomorrow. On the house alone. Now, as I understand it. None of the inheritance can be liquidated to pay the tax bill and if you don't raise the cash to pay the bill the estate reverts to the crown.
    Um....what? Nowhere could I find any evidence that this is true.

    http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/leaflets/iht3.htm

    http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/leaflets/iht13.htm

    £275 000 catches a significant section of the population now. For a tax that was designed to hit only the very well off it hits a lot of normal hardworking families.
    Well according to the government it affects 4% of people. Personally I don't think 4% is a particularly significant section of the population.....and I say that knowing that right now my mum's property assets put her well over the threshold, and that my dad will probably be a long way over by the time he dies.

    Is it a 'vote now pay later' budget? After all petrol duty, for example, is frozen until September, after which the govt will have most of it's 4 year term before it has to worry about pandering to the great unwashed again.
    Well, after the 'petrol protests' in 2000 they are unlikely to significantly jack up fuel duty. The garage outside my house has gone back over 80p a litre of unleaded, so I'd say this is a reaction to continued high oil prices.

    Paid maternity leave to rise to a year. That's nice. Who pays for it? As a small business I have been put off hiring because of the costs. I couldn't afford to pay someone to be at home for a year.
    As a small business the cost is largely borne by the taxpayer, in fact. You wouldn't have to pay for someone to be at home for a year.

    As for paternity leave. Pffft, bonding with the newborn? Most blokes would take the chance for an extra few rounds of Call of Duty while being paid.
    So what? It's not up to the government to dictate to people how to behave, if men choose to abuse their right to paternity leave that's not the government's fault.

    More private houses on council estates....why?
    So people can have realistic aspirations of home ownership? Which might be a good motivator for people to work hard and try and better themselves?

    No tax increase on small/medium cars....a Porche is nice and small Get that nasty big Mondeo taxed up
    Road tax is now calculated on the basis of the amount of CO2 a car produces per kilometre travelled (as I'm sure you're aware). If Porsche could somehow make a Cayenne that did 50mpg it'd be cheap to tax.
    Last edited by Rave; 18-03-2005 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Put same link twice :o

  5. #5
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    I dont get the whole inheritance tax thing tbh, you pay taxes all your life then when you die whoever you give stuff to has to pay a wodge of tax on it and then pay tax on it until they die...

    Plus it takes ages for the solicitors to sort it all out, meanwhile all of the accounts are frozen so what happens to the interest that would of been generated from the estate?

    Hey ho, thing is who do we vote for, you vote of Conservative cos it'll get Labour out, but at the end of the day there all politicians so its a loose loose situation rite...?

  6. #6
    Age before beauty......MOVE!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig
    I dont get the whole inheritance tax thing tbh, you pay taxes all your life then when you die whoever you give stuff to has to pay a wodge of tax on it and then pay tax on it until they die...

    Plus it takes ages for the solicitors to sort it all out, meanwhile all of the accounts are frozen so what happens to the interest that would of been generated from the estate?

    Hey ho, thing is who do we vote for, you vote of Conservative cos it'll get Labour out, but at the end of the day there all politicians so its a loose loose situation rite...?
    You gotta vote for who you think can do the best! Whether that's best for your personal wealth, for the good of the community or the environment, it's up to you. Personally I'm quite selfish. I'm considering voting for anyone that will scrap tuition fees and save me £18K over the next few years! (Two kids coming up to Uni age). However I'm not naive enough to think that the Tories will look after anyone other than the rich b******s .

    Inheritance Tax??? Cant understand the problem here. I guess it's because I am one of 6 kids and my parents will leave next to nothing. I'm also fairly sure my Mother-in-law will out live me. But essentially it's a windfall anyway. I have no wish that my parents should leave me money. I want them to use what little wealth they have to enjoy the short years left in their lives.

    The money raised by taxes goes to the benefit of the country. The only question is whether you want to tax high and spend high or tax low and spend low. Perhaps the way the government distribute the dosh may also be a concern, but I'm sure most ppl will agree we need hospitals, schools, police and armed forces?
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  7. #7
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Stamp Duty was a joke. As Skii says, if you cant afford to get on the ladder, you're stuck. Period. Fags booze and petrol....up....bound to have happened.

    bored with it all

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  8. #8
    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    Petrol's frozen, a pack of 20 and a pints up 8p though, just more incentive for people to buy from smugglers...

  9. #9
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    Say what you like, the man is a genius. He really is the ace in the pack as far as Labour are concerned. Whatever the Tories say, the fact of the matter is that he has done a masterful job with the economy. Compared to the way Thatcher and Major dealt with things during their time in power, there is no comparison.
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    'ave it. Skii's Avatar
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    Genius or not Beeenie, as a single working person living with my partner in rented accomodation, with no kids, no medical afflictions, driving to work and back every day , he ain't a genius to me.

    The economy is wondeful if you bought your ex-council house for 29p 8 years ago and have 6 kids, you work for a large London based Bank, like buying everything on credit and have a pregnant wife.

    I'm very pleased for the economy

    Over the bloody moon in fact.

  11. #11
    Moderator DavidM's Avatar
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    I'm glad I don't smoke

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    Goat Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skii
    Genius or not Beeenie, as a single working person living with my partner in rented accomodation, with no kids, no medical afflictions, driving to work and back every day , he ain't a genius to me.

    The economy is wondeful if you bought your ex-council house for 29p 8 years ago and have 6 kids, you work for a large London based Bank, like buying everything on credit and have a pregnant wife.

    I'm very pleased for the economy

    Over the bloody moon in fact.
    I'm not saying that everything is perfect for everybody, but if you look at things like the unemployment rate in mainland Europe (especially Germany), the relatively calm financial markets compared to the US and a number of other things, I think we are very lucky...

    Edit: Brown made a BIG move to someone in your position looking to buy their first home...
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

  13. #13
    If your 5555... Swafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33
    Stamp Duty was a joke. As Skii says, if you cant afford to get on the ladder, you're stuck. Period. Fags booze and petrol....up....bound to have happened.

    bored with it all
    Stamp duty is good, theyve raised it from 60 to 120k.....with flats round here goin for about 100k, it means itll be cheaper for a first time buyers ? Shame....by the next time he raises it prices will be sky rocketed and a flat will cost over 120k and everyone will end up paying it again No doubt when I come to buy a place

    Fags and booze as expected.....shame, wish fags went up a bit more to stop people smoking....and beer went up less to aid the get roger a beer belly fund
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    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    The government are shooting emselves in the foot taxing fags even more, up to nealry £5 a pack for some brands, are people gonna pay that or £25 for 200 from the shady bloke in the pub, I know which I choose.

  15. #15
    Senior Member RVF500's Avatar
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    In brief answer to rich. I am well hammered by the inheritance tax band and I really don't consider myself in the top 4% of the country. Far from it. My comment on the £50, I decided that it wasn't worth claiming as it wouldn't really help my situation much at all I was either going to go down or rise up on my own and did it off my own back. In fact I was so lazy and grasping I took nothing from welfare, used my own resources (every penny I had and plenty I didn't as well) and created enough work out of just about nothing to not only keep my home (just) but come out the other side and make progress. Perhaps everyone should be so lazy. Their lives might improve. The idea of peopel improving themselves because there are private houses on council estates is naive imo. We need more council housing not expensive private housing. It is also at odds with the idea that elitism is a bad thing. Can't have it both ways. For my sins one of the jobs I did, albeit briiefly, was 'financial advisor' and inheritance tax planning was one of the things I got involved in. A very murky area. The things I have stated above are to the best of my recollection true. I'm not sure on the time limit that one has in which to pay the tax before the estate reverts but most resort to getting out a bank loan if they can to pay the tax before liquidating assets.

    There are plenty of poor southerners it seems my sarcasm escaped you. Sussex once had one of the highest unemployment figures for example. Early 90's as I recall.

    Dabeen....How well do you remember Thatcher? I remember her quite well as I was an adult when she was came in to power. You may (or may not) remember she came in to power at a very difficult time when the unions were threatening to strangle the economy with restrictive working practices. The free market economy we enjoy now is a result of her not allowing that. Europe was in a state of flux and we were tied in to the ERM at the wrong time and suffered for it. If you look you will see that the interest rate situation and devaluation was a result of the actions of other countries and an experiment with common economic policy. Something your pseudo-capitalist heroes are trying to tinker with again. I also remember that her and John Major's govts began the growth and stabilised the economy that has given us such a steady time of late while other countries around Europe struggle.

    As for stamp duty, it's not just first time buyers that suffer. I had to drop the price of my house by £15000 as it was just over the stamp duty band and wouldn't sell at it's market value. I then had to pay a further £10 000 + for the stamp duty on my new home. That in one fell swoop was a decent family wage paid in tax, and loss forced on me by the stamp duty bands, to hand over one set of keys and pick up another. I seem to remember you trying to give me a hard time on my legal moves to mitigate my taxation. I pay tax, and plenty of it. How can he say that the new level of duty would exempt 47% of property purchaces when only 27% of properties sold last year fell below the £120 000 threshold and the average house price in the UK now is £145 000? The other thresholds stay in place. The harder you work to improve your lot. The more you pay.

    For me this budget is a small cash giveaway to try and bribe a few swing voters. The same sort of budget preceded the last 2 elections and tax rises followed each election. £5 billion pounds tax on pensions? a real boon for savers. When this mob took over Britain ranked 4th in the world as a place to run a business. It now ranks 11th. A £56 billion projected surplus has been turned into a £45 billion real deficit. Thank God he's a genius or we'd be little more than a banana republic by now. He's had the equivelent of a Ferrari economy in which to race and the vehicle has flattered the driver. Again accountants are pointing to holes in the figures. They did that with IR35 telling the revenue that it would result in a net loss. The accountants were ignored, the revenue made a net loss. The answer to the brain drain? Remove an unfair class tax or make it easier for Indian and New Zealand IT professionals to get visas. I'll let you figure out what answer was plumped for. He's attacked small business shares. effectively charging tax twice on holders of alphabet shares, where different catagory of share have a different value. Oh, and keep an eye on your national insurance contributions.

    Though to be fair he has done some good things. For example keeping a distance from common European monetary policy. At least for now.
    Last edited by RVF500; 18-03-2005 at 03:09 AM.
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    Age before beauty......MOVE!!!!
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    I think all serious conversation finishes when someone says Thatcher did a good job for this country (let alone that waste of space called Major)

    And the only reason we have not signed up to European Monitory Union is Political (and political) and certainly not for any economic reasons.
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