More ID card disingenuity

[schmunk]

Also am i the only one who doesnt get the whole ID cards stop terorists thing.

I think the point is that more-secure ID (as long as it is still treated with total suspicion) will make doing things one shouldn't a bit harder, thereby reducing the number of succesful attempts of 'illegal' acts AND acting as a deterrent, thereby reducing the total number of such acts.

I'm not just talking about terrorism here (as I think the whole 'terrorism' thing is vastly overblown in the UK), but fraud, ILLEGAL immigration, even burglary in some instances...

I mean a terorist isnt going to carry a card idetifing himself as one.

And I think that is the point! If it becomes harder for people to produce believable fake ID, then they won't be able to carry out nefarious acts using it...

[Stoo]

My gripes?

Having to pay for something that will be required by law, my private data being held on a central system that is bound to be insecure, my private details available to the highest bidder, lack of a right for my personal information to be private, where will the sceme end (how long before DNA data is held on the system as well?), I don't want to be catalogued, the scheme will do nothing to prevent identity theft, or terrorism, or anythng else the government says it will magically fix..

The list is fairly endless..

I'm not against ID cards in theory, as most of us do carry around more than enough ID already, but I'm completely against the way this ham-fisted scheme has been brought in, and the way it will (not) work.

If there was a national ID Card which combined NI card, Driving license, and possibly a passport, but didn't hold biometric data on an inept centrally bungled system (EDS anyone?), then I dare say that most people wouldn't have a problem with it..

[oralpain]

If this bill does come into power i think it;s high time for a Recolution. Revolt i say, they cant put us all in jail.

People that would be willing to revolt over this are likely (and unfourtunatly) a small minority. Alot of people will moan and complain, but when it comes right down to it, most will comply.

And I think that is the point! If it becomes harder for people to produce believable fake ID, then they won't be able to carry out nefarious acts using it...

Since when do you need an ID to blow yourself up and/or kill random people? There are plenty of reasonably effective attacks that can be carried out with very little.

Also, a terrorist could still get a real ID card...watch lists and the like are hardly comprehensive.

[Twigman]

If they combine all the passport/ID card/driving liscense etc into one just think how completely utterly screwed you would be if you lost it on a drunken night out...
Obviously they could track you down and return it to you, but the more things combined together the worse it is for the 24/48hours you end up without it.

[RedPutty]

They keep saying an ID card is compulsory. How the hell can a non compulsory ID card make any difference to immigration or crime. Their own arguments don't even parse correctly.

[schmunk]

Also, a terrorist could still get a real ID card...watch lists and the like are hardly comprehensive.

Yes, but any step in the right direction is a step in the right direction...

[spikegifted]

IMHO, there are no bad things related to ID cards. (Unless you're so stupid to lose it! But that's entirely your fault - you can't blame anyone else for that.) For many years, I lived in Hong Kong, a former colony of the UK, and I was forced to carry an ID card from the age of 11. No-one ever complained about the cost... My wife is an European and her country (among others) has had a compulsory an ID card system for a long, long time. No-one ever complained about invasion of personal liberty or erosion of human rights. All those people who put up feeble arguments against the ID have never spend any decent amount of time in a country which has it and don't come to appreciate the usefulness of such a piece of document.

[G4Z]

Spike, going to have to disagree with you there mate.

How is this ID card going to directly benefit me?

What is it that I Cant do now that I could do with an ID card?

I am also sick of this "well if you have nothing to hide you dont have to worry" argument. Its not what they might find out about me that worrys me its where this might all lead to. The potential for legislation creep is huge with this one and if you ask me the ID card is the first step to a real big brother police state. They may have ID cards in other countries but they are nothing like what is being proposed here with the national identity register and biometrics, as Stoo says how long untill DNA gets in there? How long after that until we get DNA profiling for "criminality" (a strange word I had not heard of until I heard Blunkett going on about it, I swear he just makes them up) and for health issues and defects? (Im sure the insurance industry would love it)

I for one will not be bullied into accepting this, lets just hope the lords mince it before it gets to that stage as I have no faith in the "labour rebels" that allways seem to fall into line when it counts.

[RedPutty]

If you are against id cards please sign up to pledge your support against them
http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse

[Twigman]

Atm I can walk out of my house with nothing in my pockets...I love that feeling.
Normally I would have a mobile (or two), Wallet (containing cash, cards, ID all that kind of crap), and keys. And probably other rubbish.

Now Im at home for the summer I can wonder around not caring about anything.
I dont want to have to carry an ID card around tbh.

[Rave]

All those people who put up feeble arguments against the ID have never spend any decent amount of time in a country which has it and don't come to appreciate the usefulness of such a piece of document.

That, frankly, is a crap argument. It's like me saying 'you've never taken heroin so you don't appreciate how wonderful life is when you're high all the time'. I've lived in Britain all my life and I have never once wanted an ID card. I have never once been prevented from doing something I wanted to do through being unable to identify myself.

In any case as G4Z so correctly points out, the ID card scheme being proposed here is totally unlike any existing sheme in other countries. I don't have a problem with ID cards per se, in that it wouldn't bother me if the government combined passport and driving licence in one and called it an ID card. It's the fact that they intend to make them compulsory, and the national identity database that I object to.

[G4Z]

yeah, that and the £2,500 fine they want to slap on you if you dont tell them you moved house changed your phone number or bought a new pair of jeans...

[Rave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4651299.stm

[Byatt]

To go in on an ad hominem attack ... indicates to me just how bad things have gone for the government.

Spot on.

[RedPutty]

I thought that was the standard government policy