More ID card disingenuity

[Rave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4625407.stm

Graaaahhhh my blood is starting to boil again.

There are good reasons for doing this now, because of the change to technology, the fact that we will have to pay for biometric passports and the ID card part of it is a very small additional cost."

Biometric passports were needed to enable UK citizens to continue to enjoy the right to travel freely around the world, he added.

This is, basically, crap. No country is going to insist that we have biometric passports, in fact the US have explicitly stated that they will not be requiring them in the near future. Anyway, whether or not other countries will require biometric passports, that is NOT a justification for forcing me to turn up and be catalogued. What if I don't wish to travel to those countries? Why should I have to pay through the nose so that other people can travel to countries who like imposing big-brotheresque restrictions on who can enter their country?

I'm getting more and more fed up with the misleading rubbish and outright LIES the government keep coming up with to promote this ridiculous scheme. If you're in London tomorrow then PLEASE come along to protest outside parliament tomorrow (when the bill receives its second reading), I'll post the details of time and place when I get home. In the meantime please consider signing up to the pledge against them.

http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse

We can and will defeat them!

[Jonny M]

My main fear is that what with the government's past record of implementing massive IT projects, of which this is one of them, is that they always go wrong (hello EDS). While neutral on the whole ID card issue, I really do object to paying for one (passports are optional etc), and wouldn't want the hassle which would result from my details getting compromised or sold to the highest bidder by a rogue call centre worker, from a card which I never said I wanted in the first place.

If I have problems with my credit card due to me being careless, I can accept that, but when you put such a powerful means of tracking people, and keeping records of their travels, in government hands, and give people no choice about it, something's bound to go wrong.

[Stoo]

Not only that but apparently there are plans afoot for the wholesale sale of some of the data...

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24189



If this does go ahead, I for one will certainly be moving my plans forward for moving away from this ever more stupid country.

[Rave]

Well I've signed the pledge of course, but it was always my intention to simply refuse to comply. If they fine me I won't pay, if they send me to prison so be it.

Anyway, as promised details of the protest in London. From the No2id email:

NO2ID and Liberty will be holding a lobby on Parliament Square on the day of
the Second Reading of the Identity Cards Bill, next Tuesday 28th June.

Please come along from 11.30am to assemble on the Square for a 12:00 noon
photo opportunity, which will last about an hour. We shall be providing
banners* and some other props, but do feel free to make your own anti-ID
placards and bring them along.

If you can't make it along on the 28th, there is still time to protest this
Bill - but you have to act quickly:

1) Write to your MP - lobbying toolkit at http://mps.no2id.net/

Simply type in your postcode and you'll be provided with all the information
and links you need to contact your MP about compulsory registration, the
National Identity Register and ID cards. Please write NOW, before they vote
your privacy and freedoms away.

I'll be there, so if anyone's going post here or PM me and we can keep an eye out for each other.

[iranu]

I'm with you on this one Rave - If enough people say I won't pay, send me to prison, then the system will collapse. I for one will never be forced into owning an ID card sponsored by my own government.

[Rave]

Sign the pledge then m8

[schmunk]

No country is going to insist that we have biometric passports, in fact the US have explicitly stated that they will not be requiring them in the near future.

Yes, but come back in 10 years and I bet we'll be getting much closer. It's inevitable that biometric passports/identity cards will come into existence at some point in the near future - it's constructive use of modern technology.

[Jonny M]

Well then discuss ID cards again in 10 years, with a government who knows what they are doing. The idea of selling our personal information is obscene.

Signed the pledge as well now.

[Rave]

Yes, but come back in 10 years and I bet we'll be getting much closer. It's inevitable that biometric passports/identity cards will come into existence at some point in the near future - it's constructive use of modern technology.

But why? Personally I call it a destructive use of modern technology. Why do we need to fingerprint and iris scan everyone who comes into the country? And more importantly, if there is a need, why do we need every single one of our citizens to similarly present themselves for identification at the government's behest?

[schmunk]

But why? Personally I call it a destructive use of modern technology.

Oh yes, very good, a lovely bit of sloganeering...

The point is that eventually everybody in every (developed) country will have a biometric ID, hopefully making proof of identity a little more secure, thereby making it a little harder for people to get into places they shouldn't be and out of places they should; a little harder for people to open bank accounts or take loans with forged details; a little harder for people to withdraw money from others' accounts without permission etc. etc.

I still don't know why any law-abiding citizen with a full legal right to be wherever they are should have any major concerns about having a biometric ID.

[Grey M@a]

The funny thing is, the government is saying it will cost just over 90 quid for the card every 10 years like a passport renewal etc etc, A uni did some research and said that price will double as they will need to do it every 5 years. If anyone gets the computer weekly about two weeks ago they proved and were showing that you can get these cards for £20 each, so where does the government get the extra £70 from?

Like any IT based Government project it will fail, 90% of their projects do, they still have to get the house on board which I doubt they will and reports from the House of Lords is that the majority in attendance will reject the scheme out right. Its like this black box to record driving, they will "reduce" tax on fuel, no mention of no tax on fuel and we still have to pay road tax with it. They over spent they need money making schemes pumling our wallets not theirs.

They want me to have one of these rediculous ID cards and a black box for my car, they give them to me, I ain't paying for services that are a waste of time and money and I don't need. Another point is everyone is going on about how secure these cards are, anything made by man can be worked around and broke by man, give it a few months to a year someone, somewhere would of found a way to fiddle the system and there you have billions of pounds down the pan as they think of another scheme to fix the broken one.

[RedPutty]

biometric id is not foolproof, far from it. it will be no more use than the portable universally recognised ID many of us already have (called a passport!). There would be an outcry if we were required to carry our passport within our own country, presumably this is why they are making *another* id system.

[Rave]

Oh yes, very good, a lovely bit of sloganeering...

It wasn't intended to be. IMO it's using technology just because it's (supposedly) posible, not because there's any good reason.

The point is that eventually everybody in every (developed) country will have a biometric ID,

You say this like it's a fait accompli, but it's not. I will never have one for a start.

hopefully making proof of identity a little more secure,

That's a big hope. How's it actually going to do that?

thereby making it a little harder for people to get into places they shouldn't be and out of places they should; a little harder for people to open bank accounts or take loans with forged details; a little harder for people to withdraw money from others' accounts without permission etc. etc.

Yeah, and if the database gets mucked up (which it inevitably will where humans are involved) it'll make it harder for people to do all that stuff even if they're 100% legitimate. All those illegal activities are problematic yes but nowhere near problematic enough to justify spending £20bn and forcing every citizen to turn up and be catalogued at the government's convenience.

I still don't know why any law-abiding citizen with a full legal right to be wherever they are should have any major concerns about having a biometric ID.

As a law abiding citizen, I'll tell you then:

1) It almost certainly won't work properly, and could easily become a massive inconvenience
2) There's no need
3) The government does not and should not need to be able to know exactly what bank accounts I open, nor should they know when I'm buying booze, fags, pr0n etc. etc.
4) They specifically shouldn't have my fingerprints, because the police are, in my experience, mostly thickos and are bound to go around hassling people because their fingerprints were found at crime scenes- even if they were demonstrably miles away etc.
5) If you make them compulsory it fundamentally changes the relationship between citizen and state. At the moment the government (in peacetime at least) has no power to force me to disclose anything to them beyond where I live (for the electoral roll) and a few other details at census time. That's the way it should be.

[schmunk]

CBA to respond properly - I'm too busy Working For The Man.

Biometric ID will be introduced though, you mark my words...











(6/10 - try harder)

[Twigman]

I saw on the lunchtime BBC news they are planning 1on1 interviews for passports. "Most people will be within 20minutes of a passport centre" or something.
So with the governement usual "enhanced truth" thats 30mins away, plus traffic = 45min.
Each way...so thats 1hour30mins travelling plus 10min interview.
So bascially I am expected to take the best part of 2 hours out of my day so I can get a passport?
Will they be refunding my loss in wages? Oh no wiat, they'll probably charge me for the privelegde.
Also think of the millions of people they are meant to be interviewing? GOing to have to employ loads more people...
What are they going to ask? Are you really Joe Bloggs? yes. Really? yes. Are you sure? Yes. Are you a terrorist? No. Ok you can have a passport then. ?????

Nope. They can naff off.

[Stoo]

Plus they will scan finger prints and eyes for new passports in the interviews.

At which point I tell them to get knotted and use my Canadian passport instead