legalise cannabis?

[Slick]

Originally posted by Knoxville
How do you know that 5 years down the line they will?

That's kinda my point, you don't know because it's a drug we still know relatively little about and the things we do know about it indicate that it has some dangerous long term side effects.

Originally posted by Knoxville
and it doesn't matter what age restriction they slap on it theres always ways around it how many people on these boards alone are under 18 and go out drinking

As I've said before it wouldn't be legalised the same as drinking. It would be sold in small quantities to be smoked in private at home, these would be highly monitored and I suspect nearly everyone would be ID'd. This is because any Government who legalised it would put these measures in place in order to reduce opposition. Also they wouldn't be able to get it from drug dealers any more because it would still be highly illegal to sell it as the Government would want to tax it and drug dealers would not see the point any more if their only customers were under 18 so instead they would try to sell more of the harder drugs.

[steve threlfall]

Originally posted by not_your_punk
heyhey kiddo's! just got in from amsterdam, one guess how i spent most of my week.... coffeeshops are amazing, a nice, safe, friendly place to smoke weed and generally relax. it's a hell of a lot better than having to buy it off some dodgy geezer round the back of B&Q or whatever. the uk needs coffeeshops!

spacebucks coming soon

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by Slick
But those are the short term effects, how do you know 5 years down the line they won't have crippled their brains from using it? Also (I presume they're under 18) if it was legalised, they wouldn't be able to get hold of it as it would be strictly distibuted to over 18s, they then might try to use harder drugs as a substitute.

I'm sorry mate, but I'm going to label this post as FUD IMHO. Firstly, I am of the opinion that the increase in risk in terms of permanent mental health damage from cannabis is very low indeed. Secondly, if the drug was legalised they would be able to go to their doctor or hospital to get _the facts_ about the drug and its potential side effecs, rather than have to sweep it under the carpet.

I think probably 80% of my friends over the last 12 years or so have smoked cannabis on a regular basis, and the only people I know who have suffered mental health effects have received them from LSD, a very dangerous and poorly informed drug IHO...

That's kinda my point, you don't know because it's a drug we still know relatively little about and the things we do know about it indicate that it has some dangerous long term side effects.

I do think these posts are FUD mate. The increase in risk from permament damage is extremely low...

[Punky]

Originally posted by steve threlfall
spacebucks coming soon

i got meself a 'StarBuds' t-shirt from there, rather amusing. there are actually a couple of coffeeshops in london somewhere, i just gotto find out where.

[Slick]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Firstly, I am of the opinion that the increase in risk in terms of permanent mental health damage from cannabis is very low indeed.

Well when legalising for a whole country, if the risk went from say 0.1% to 0.5% of getting a mental illness, when taking this into account for a whole country that's a massive increase.

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
if the drug was legalised they would be able to go to their doctor or hospital to get _the facts_ about the drug and its potential side effecs

You think if you go to a doctor now and ask he'll tell you to go away because it's illegal? Just like if a 15 year old boy went along and asked for "the facts" about contraception you're saying he'd be told to come back in a year? The reason the doctor wouldn't have much to say is because we don't know all the facts about the drug so it's impossible to make an informed decision. Do you think it would be a responsible move to legalise a drug we know hardly anything about?

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I do think these posts are FUD mate. The increase in risk from permament damage is extremely low...

How do you know that? Find me some research which says that. Also are my posts "fud" because they don't agree with your point of view, I've seen and experienced first hand the damage this drug can do.

Do you mind me asking a few questions? How long have you been smoking cannabis and how often?

If it's been for a long period of time and fairly often can you honestly say that you haven't noticed any negative effects on your memory, moods, attention span etc not to mention the damage to your lungs if you smoke it?

[Punky]

there has been a slight effect on my memory, but only my short-term memory. i've been smoking it for about 3 years or so now, and i can safely say i havn't noticed any changes in moods or attention span. i've always had a short attention span anyway (ADD?!). plus i smoke ciggaretes anyway, so i havn't really noticed any changes in my lungs either. i went to a welcome-home party for some of my mates last night, and the adults there started asking us about weed, and saying that they think it should be legal, and its better for you than drinking. when the men went off to the pub, we got the weed out and a couple of my mates mom's got stoned with us, which was wierd.

[DaBeeeenster]

http://www.sabcnews.com/sci_tech/sci...,61263,00.html

Long term use of marijuana does not appear to have any serious effects on the brain according to researchers at the University of California in San Diego.
"Surprisingly, we saw very little evidence of deleterious effects. The only exception was a very small effect in learning new information,"

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...es/nc/nc1g.htm

...individuals who used a daily average of seven marihuana cigarettes (two to 18 range) for average of eight years (two-and-a-half to 16 range) showed no evidence of brain damage or mental deterioration.

If you were to compare these effects to those of, say, dependent alcoholics, I have no doubt which drug would come out less favourably.

To say we do not know a lot about the drug is patently untrue. There have been thousands of studies on the effects of cannabis within Western science. Googling for 2 minutes demonstrates that. I'd personally also put this argument down to FUD. We are told by the powers that be that we dont know enough about cannabis etc. etc. Well, there's a reason they say that; it's a easy way to get off the hook about making an informed decision about it.

I'd rather not go into personal details as they are just that; personal. They would not demonstrate anything to any scientifically significant degree.

You show me a provable, marked and statistically significant increase in mental health and respiratory illnesses in Holland, that correlates with the decriminalisation of cannabis, and I will wholeheartedly agree with you...

Finally, I refer you to the statistic I posted earlier.

The UK had 6.7 "problem drug users" per 1,000 people. These include those who inject or are long-term users of opiates, cocaine or amphetamine, often committing crime to feed their expensive habits.

The Netherlands...had the lowest number of problem users - just 2.6 per 1,000.

[Agent]

...individuals who used a daily average of seven marihuana cigarettes (two to 18 range) for average of eight years (two-and-a-half to 16 range) showed no evidence of brain damage or mental deterioration.

Sorry, but i dont agree with that.
Ive seen people who ive known since primary school start to smoke cannabis around the age of 16-17, most by the time they were 18-20 they talked slower, wasnt no where near as clever as they used to be, and seem "dopey". Of course im not saying everyone is like this, but ive seen it with my own eyes with *very* close friends.

[Slick]

Yup I'm with you on this one Agent, you can find statistics to prove anything. I use to be a big user and just after using it for 6 months I had a really bad short term and even long term memory, I was definitly less "sharp" I even use to get made a joke of cos of my dopeyness from the drug, my attention span was much worse, I did really badly in school etc etc. I haven't smoked it in over a year and a half now and I feel my brain's recovered, I still drink because although I may do some damage to my body in the short term and wake up with a hangover, it doesn't mean I'm unable to use my brain properly.

Also how can these researchers conclusively say that it does little brain damage when we still don't know what 60% of the brain does?

[DaBeeeenster]

HA! I find statistics and medical research to back up my thread and I get the "you can find statistics to prove anything" line!!! Only teasing

OK. Here's what I think, putting aside any studies or whatnot. Having studied the brain a LOT for 4 years at university I agree that there is a very limiting amount that one can objectively say scientifically about the effects of things on it, due both to its complexity and people's lack of ability to take an objective view about it.

Cannabis DOES affect you mentally, but only if used on a very regular basis (i.e. roughly more than once a week). The long term effects of a dependent smoker (i.e. someone who smokes more than a couple of joints pretty much every day) are that of a general blunting of mental ability. Short term memory is affected, but long term memory is not. I do not think it in itself leads in any way to any form of psychosis, however the effects of the drug are often enjoyed by people with psychosis in the same way that nicotine is; i.e. people with psychoses will be drawn to the drug for whatever reason (they enjoy it, it alleviates their condition, whatever), thus skewing the figures that you were talking about earlier.

Most importantly, I do not think that there are any long term mental health effects of the drug. I too have observed the effects of heavy cannabis use by friends and witnessed the same result, but once the use was stopped completely, or the level of use was reduced to what I would term "recreational" use they returned to their "normal" sharp selves.

With regards to long term effects both personally and especially socially, I think that alcohol is a FAR more dangerous, destructive and mentally affective drug. FAR FAR more. That in itself is not a reason to legalise cannabis, but I think if things are taken from a rational, high level and objective point of view, the benefits of legalisation FAR outweight the risks, especially where hard drug use is concernted. The statistics I provided above contrasting Holland and the UK's problem drug use is testament to this attitude.

[Punky]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
The statistics I provided above contrasting Holland and the UK's problem drug use is testament to this attitude.

the dutch are very relaxed people from what i saw, and i know that they provide addicts of harder drugs with the drugs they need to feed their addictions to prevent them from stealing or whatever to make the money to buy the drugs. if the police spend less time harassing cannabis smokers, who are peaceful people, they can concentrate on the heroin addicts and crackhead rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish who commit crime to feed their habits. the police just have to prioritise and decide what they want to achieve - stopping people smoking cannabis, or stopping people commit crimes to buy harder drugs.

[Doctor.Bob]

It should certainly be legalized.

As a bona fide doc. & a man with a v. bad back I can say it is an excellent painkiller.

[Saracen]

Originally posted by Doctor.Bob
It should certainly be legalized.

As a bona fide doc. & a man with a v. bad back I can say it is an excellent painkiller.

I can see no valid reason for it not being an alternative available to doctors to prescribe where the circumstances make it the most appropriate treatment. It seems to me that the reasons for it NOT being available under prescription are more political than either medical or common sense. No MP wants to be seen as being soft on drugs, which is probably how a sensationalist media would portray such an opinion from an MP.

As for general legalisation, I remain to be convinced on that. So I didn't vote as there wasn't an option that suited my position and it seems a bit late to add one now

[Punky]

well, i've just got in from a Cannabis Cafe, right here in sunny ol' england, and it was a liberating experience. being able to have a smoke, with others in a good atmosphere and without hassle was amazing. This country needs to go Dutch and legalise coffeeshops. Peace.

[skirkham]

Let the goverment make money out of it and take it away from criminals

[Ivor Life]

should be legalized purley because we should have the right to do it if we want. Its a plant at the end of the day!
God made it, we bred it!

Just to throw in my pennies worth,

it aint addictive physically but it is socially.
Ive been smoking it for three years (heavily) and i can stop wen i want (i also dont ever smoke cigs!) but i really miss the seshes and things like tv/film/music are ten times better wen ur stoned!

peace