Now happier with SCAN's tests of faulty goods

[error404]

Here is my story with Scan customer support, and i believe it is worth having a look at it if you plan buying from this shop.

On september 3rd 2007, I ordered from Scan £540.28 of computer parts to build a new system. This included an Asus P5K-VM mobo, a Q6600 GO cpu and two Dual Channel PC4300 Corsair Value Select RAM sticks.
After plugging everything together and powering on, the cpu fan would only spin for a second, then stop, without any bip from the mobo nor anything displaying on screen. The keyboard's lights (caps lock, num lock and scroll lock) would only flash once, then... nothing.

After reading thoroughly the manual, testing with 3 different PSU, 2 different CPU fans (the boxed and an Hiper3), plus 2 different case fan, everyting out of the case (to rule out any shortcut), and plugging a new PNY RAM DDR2 667, it was time to contact Scan's customer support...

Chapter 1 - Sept. 13th - RMA issued by AmandaS, tests by Lee
As CPUs are probably the most reliable part in a computer, and as i tried with three RAM modules (the two Corsair PC4300, normally fast enough for Dual Channel, and one single PNY PC 5400), I initially suspected a faulty mobo. Fast courier pick-up, Scan techguy tests and reveals the mobo is fine, but it might be the Bios that is not up-to-date for Quad Core. They propose to apply the update, but it will cost the usual £12 ($10+VAT). I mention that this product is advertised as fully compatible with Quad Core (front page of P5K-VM product description), and here is the answer i get : the motherboard is part of an old stock, and was released with the first bios version, not compatible with Q6600.
So, as far as i understand, not only Scan is not precise in its product description (such possible incompatibility should be mentioned to the potential buyer), but they will charge you for having sold you an old piece of stock !
I think they were aware of their boderline behaviour, as they did not charge for the courier. I appreciate though.

Chapter 2 - Oct. 2nd - RMA issued by Chriske, tests by Daryl
Confident enough, I tried to boot my system again and... no difference !!!
Ok, time to resend items, this time the mobo, the cpu and the ram modules all together, with the instruction given to Chriske to test the three altogether,and sort out what prevents the boot.
Memory was found faulty, but i express my serious doubts, as i tested with another completely different ram module...
I got another motherboard, Intel DQ35JO, and same behaviour, CPU fan spins for a second then nothing...

Chapter 3 (the best one) - Oct. 19th - RMA issued by Chriske, tests by AndyC
This time i did not expect much in booting the system, and i was right as the CPu fan spinned for a second, then nothing. Not very surprizing, as the memory is probably not the problem. So i sent the three items once again, and called short after Scan received the goods, because the Return Status on Scan's webpage was diplaying that no fault was found. I talked to Mark who said nothing was wrong, I said I had serious doubts regarding the 3 items working together, and got the reply that the tests would be conducted again.

And this is the magic part...
Suddenly, the Return Status would show the memory as faulty !!
This gives a hint on how extensive the tests are...
In a very professional way, Mark admitted there might be a problem with the memory. I mentioned i did not want the goods back, but a refund or even a voucher. Instead of which Mark proposed to exchange the cheap Value Select Corsair memory for a faster one, as he admitted the price for better ones had dropped to the level of Value Select by the time i bought it. As i'm a nice, patient guy, i accepted the deal, at one condition: i wanted a screenshot proving that everything was working fine. "No problem, will do..." was Mark's answer.

I never received this screenshot, and Mark said the tech guys forgot to take one, but tested the three parts.
And guess what i received ? Exactlythe SAME Value Select memory, in a SEALED package !!!


Thanks Scan a lot for making me a complete fool, I paid for this system over 2 months ago, and still have nothing working properly, not to mention the frustrating experience of having 12k+ digital pictures pending to be processed on a powerful computer rather than on a laptop.

What's next ?

Of course, i'll call Mark back early Monday to get an interesting explanation, then...
Refund ?
Consumer Protection Agency ?
Going legal ?

Ok, let's try to be fair, despite the fact i'm very annoyed by all this.
I think Scan features a good service, fast and reliable in delivering fairly priced goods, that are sometimes hard to find in the high street. Honestly, I will probably shop again at Scan. But, though i must mention i was never charged for courier costs, this experience of their customer support was utterly disappointing, so if you plan to shop at Scan, you better pray that everything works fine from the very beginning...

[Chris P]

error404

Thank you for your very detailed feedback.... I certainly do not agree with calling members of the RMA staff liars - None of us are like this! - other demeaning terms have also been edited out of your post.

You have raised this feedback and we will certainly look into your post in great detail and hopefully we can come to an amicable resolution.

Wesley the Returns Manager will be in contact on Monday 12th

Best Regards

[error404]

error404
I certainly do not agree with calling members of the RMA staff liars - None of us are like this! - other demeaning terms have also been edited out of your post.

Chris, i appreciate someone at Scan is reading this. I don't think Mark is liar, and i think he's doing a fair job in dealing with customer's requests. However, the fact is he told me something that did not happen :

1/ Not only the memory was exactly the same one as before, despite him telling i'd received better specs RAM sticks... (as their price dropped. But this is very honest from him anyway.)
2/ ...but the memory package was perfectly sealed, despite the fact i was told the CPU, mobo and RAM sticks would be tested altogether before being sent back (not to mention that a screenshot should have been sent).

Now, clearly, it is not my job to figure out whether Mark promised something that couldn't be done, or whether the guys wrapping the packages to be sent did not pay attention to Mark's instructions, but one thing is clear: I've paid for this computer 2 months ago, soon, better spec'd parts will be available for less, and that is not pleasant. I'd add that now, i almost know the guys at my company's post office by their nicknames.

I'm not a tricky guy, but now, i think it is time to tackle this problem for real, and i'm confident we will find a fair settlement for both you and me. I will call Mark on Monday, but will be glad to be called by Wesley as well (please use my cell phone number)

[Chris P]

error404

We will be in touch on Monday to sort this out..

Best Regards

[rabbid]

Not trying to inflame any situation, but spending out on a Quad and then using PC4300 RAM?

That aside my experiences with Corsair VS DDR1 are very good, I was highly impressed by the PC3200 range, as I have been with the DDR2-667 XMS2 range.

BTW Compatibility can be an issue for us all. Did you ask Scan sales team to recommend parts that are fine together, or did you order without consulting the sales team first?
I just ask as I had a similar small components compatibility issue (wasnt with Scan) years back, when I ordered parts willy-nilly and they wernt so happy together! We live and learn...

edit:
What PSUs have you used to test? (make/model/rating)

[error404]

To Rabbid, indeed, it can sound a bit weird to fit a Quad with PC4300 RAM. However, as you probably know even better than i do, Dual Channel split the processor's Front Bus between the two Ram sticks.

PC4300 runs at 533MHz, hence the following calculation :
533 * 2 = 1066 MHz, which is precisely the Core 2 Quad's FSB. Any faster ram stick, in this precise configuration, is sort of a waste of specs. At least this is what i've understood by searching the web... But maybe am i totally missing the point ?

[LuckyNV]

you are correct on the dual channel, but Core2 CPUs can and do benefit from having faster memory, its not just for overclocking.

The motherboard will automatically adjust using dividers

[Mark@SCAN]

Hi

Please PM me with your original invoice number and OR your most recent RMA
number so i can look through the details and give you a call back to discuss the issue.

Regards

[error404]

Mark, today you killed me over the phone with this simple sentence :
"You have to plug the 4-pin CPU power cable."

...

Hum...

Well...

Now i feel like a complete (....................) <-- Fill it yourself, if i do, it will be edited out for being inappropriate on this forum.

But... why?
Why did it take two months to figure out that I just didn't know that...
Why is this not appearing anywhere, neither in the userguide, nore the Quick Start Guide?

This is probably obvious if you're a high-spec hardware addict, but as the last computer i built was a cheap Sempron-based...
What a waste of time, and what a waste of good mood...

Nevermind, the computer is posting fine... but not with the Corsair sticks. I can only use my PNY 667 modules, while the Quick Start Guide specifies that modules running at 533mhz can work as well.

I'll call you again tomorrow, Mark, to sort this out, but thanks for that great (many will call it obvious) hint on the additional power required by the Core 2.

LuckyNV, i'm very interested by what you are saying about Quad benefiting from faster memory, but can't really understand how this is done. Can you please explain ? Thanks,

[rabbid]

it will tell you to plug this 4pin plug in the mobo manual? RTFM i think is the phrase

did u check the compatibility of RAM modules on the asus site?

[Madafwo]

Just having a quick look through the manual online it does state on page 37 that "Do not forget to connect the 4Pin EATX12V power plug; otherwise, the system will not boot"

It's a bit harsh to have a go at Scan because you didn't read through the manual and it's trouble shooting.

You can view the manual in PDF format here which also has the QVL for memory.

[Tetras]

I can only use my PNY 667 modules, while the Quick Start Guide specifies that modules running at 533mhz can work as well.

It is a common problem with P35 family boards (inc G33) that 533 memory will not boot without a BIOS update (though in your case there may not be a supporting BIOS at all). I'm not sure why, maybe cos they spent too long verifying 1333 FSB CPUs and forgot about the rest....

[error404]

It's a bit harsh to have a go at Scan because you didn't read through the manual and it's trouble shooting.

I totally agree, Madafwo, and i would feel ashamed if i was that kind of person. Linux can claim so many of my sleep hours that i'm not exactly the one to "RTFMize"... Do you honestly believe I would have spent more pounds in a second mobo for testing without having read both manuals in depth and several times ? Bank notes don't come out my printer (possibly because it is a B&W one)...

Anyway, the manual you are quoting is indeed online, and there is NO mention of the 4-pin powerplug anywhere in the two manuals inside the box, either the User Guide (Second Edition, June 2007) nor the Quick Start Guide.

The question is, should one expect such a basic information to be presented inside the setup chapter of the motherboard ? I believe so, but obviously the authors of this guide didn't...

So, my problem with the 533MHz sticks is not solved, but i'd be happy to amend the title of this thread to something more positive (because despite that waste of time, i think Scan is a good shop, as i said in my initial post).

Good evening to all of you,

[Saracen]

..... but i'd be happy to amend the title of this thread to something more positive (because despite that waste of time, i think Scan is a good shop, as i said in my initial post).

If I remember the permissions properly, you can't. But if you wish to do that, state what change you want and I'll do it for you .... if one of the Scan mods doesn't beat me to it.

[error404]

Ok Saracen, then make it "Now happier with SCAN's tests of faulty goods"

[Mark@SCAN]

Well thankfully there was a happy ending to all of this. I wish i had a pound for every customer i have spoken to who had not connected the 4pin 12v CPU power connector, however i do appreciate for people not building machines on a regular basis this isn't always obvious.

I have agreed with the customer he can return the 533 memory purchased originally for a refund as he already has some 667 PNY memory working fine in the system.

All's well that end's well