Faulty e8400?

[scruffy]

Hi,

e8400 arrived from Scan yesterday, as promised as soon as stock arrived

However, the fun grinds to a halt round about here. After installing the CPU, temps read in the BIOS at 127-244 degrees so reading around found a fix for that on the Abit forums (running IP35 Pro). The problem I've still got is that Core Temp is reading a massive difference between cores:



Reading up on the XtremeSystems/Abit forums it seems that I'm not alone, and the running theory is that there is a batch of faulty CPUs with badly calibrated Tdiodes out there. Some people are having success with the e8400/Abit IP35 Pro/Core Temp combo, others not.

The other problem I've got is stability. Firefox has crashed multiple times, and this machine is now blue screening all too regularly in Windows just doing simple things like IM and web. This machine was previously stable at 400x9 / e6600 / 8 hours Orthos, this e8400 is at 333x9 1.225v stock as rated. Nothing else has changed.

In short, I'm starting to think I've got a faulty CPU - would Scan RMA in this instance? Has anyone else seen something like this with their setup?

Cheers

[Mossy]

I will pass this on to the returns department the people who look at returns issues on this forum are not working today so it may be easier to call returns but I will pass this message on anyway.

Regards

[scruffy]

Nice one, thanks Paul. Much appreciated. Here's the CPU stepping/info btw, just in case anyone has the same:



Ta

[LuckyNV]

according to CoreTemp your stock voltage is 1.0125, go into BIOS and just set CPU voltage as <auto> or manually set 1.0125V

most likely not the problem with your whacked out temp difference though.

AFAIK Abit IP35-Pro doesn't have an official BIOS to support E8400 :S

[scruffy]

See I've never known which to trust more for voltage, Coretemp or BIOS...

BIOS is set to 1.225v, can't set it to auto because it gives the RAM too little (1.8, 2.1 needed).

I thought it was properly supported?

"BIOS ID:12

1. Update CPU micro code.
2. Support Wolfdale & Yolkfield CPU.
3. Support the pin definition of Front Audio adjusting function.
4. BIOS compiled date: 08/15/2007."

[LuckyNV]

ok my mistake on the BIOS

anyway, the VID in CoreTemp is what the BIOS will also read IF the voltage option is set to auto.
The stock voltage in Core2 CPUs will vary, my own Q6600 has VID of 1.2750 and BIOS sets that if I use auto voltage.

[scruffy]

Any further updates on this Paul?

Reading around on the web it looks like it's probably a fault affecting P35 chipsets primarily across multiple vendors. Have you had any official word from anyone?

Intel are claiming there is nothing wrong with the TDiode spec in their CPUs, I'm inclined to agree as it's multiple boards affected...

[scruffy]

It is looking more like a CPU fault than a board fault, this from the guys over at XtremeSystems. It's also started to make news sites as well, majority pointing at the CPU rather than the board.

Another google search and what the user did about his temps on E8400 >>> It seems that many, if not most Wolfdales have flawed core sensor diodes which give false temp. readings, especially at idle and low temps. Many E8400 have "stuck" cores which show much higher idle temps in one core than the other core. That stuck core temp reading only becomes "unstuck" when temps exceed that frozen mark.

Some Wolfdale's are also giving false core LOAD temperatures, which is troubling, especially if you have a temp controlled fan setup. These processors are flawed and probably should be returned (unless it's a great o/c'er). The cpus which have only the "idle temp bug" are probably not warranted a replacement. E8400 owners have been told by some retailers to ignore their core temperature readings as only the cpu temps are accurate.

I don't believe this is a motherboard issue and can be be fixed by an bios update. CoreTemp reads the temp readings right from these core diodes, regardless of the bios.

My first E8400 had 17/34C core temps. Under load, the lower core would increase in temp to match the other core, then they would both go up in unison from there. But what were the real temp readings? I really doubt that one core was 17C (7C below room temp?)

I took that cpu back to my local retailer and he exchanged it without question...with another cpu from the exact same batch! The good news is my new cpu reads 38/36C at idle (4.0GHz) with 47/52C load temps, which I can only assume are more accurate. Edited: 01/29/2008

No board change, no bios change just cpu change. Some QX9650 have had same type issue. Ace-R-Rue had one of those high-dollar problem ones with temp issues. But for that money they likey may have less problems.

[Bhavv]

Oh, I've just ordered one of these from scan! Dont tell me I'm going to have to return it even before I get it . Hopefully I should get a newer batch since I just placed my order over the weekend.

Im getting an MSI P35 Neo 2 which Scan are Pre flashing to the latest bios for me so it should at least work when I get it, but if I see these temp problems with an Asus silent knight 2 I'll complain. I also only have 1 application worth of Geil copper paste to use and was going to use it up instead of Arctic Silver 5 since I'm getting a copper contact HSF. So If it is dodgy i'll have to return it and waste my last bit of copper paste.

I use the copper paste on copper contact coolers, AS5 on Aluminium or nickel plated coolers. Im that freaking fussed over performance and temps lol.

And it doesnt look like you can buy the copper paste anymore, I got it for free with some Geil ram.

Edit - I know what to do! Use the Asus paste that comes with the Silent Kight first, and if all is fine replace it with copper.

[Clunk]

Lots of information in the thread they closed.

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...ty-issues.html

[scruffy]

So that's it then? Temps are "within tolerances", Scan closed thread with no RMA information - we're stuck with them reading wacky temperatures?

[Hicks12]

seems like it, this is pathetic from intel(scan are just doing what they can tbh). My cpu is idling from 45C and i just turned it on a minute ago(seriously) and the mobo is only at 30C gfx card is 40C....... atleast nvidia and asus get there facts right, cooler much cooler.

I will email intel but dont expect anything from them and tbh i wish i never got an intel cpu now, amd never failed me. First impressions with intel arnt good.

[Saracen]

So that's it then? Temps are "within tolerances", Scan closed thread with no RMA information - we're stuck with them reading wacky temperatures?

No, that's not it.

Scan's position seems to be that the CPUs aren't faulty. That seems to be supported by Intel saying they're working within spec. If that is the case, why would they RMA?

But, you're not forced to accept that. If the goods are faulty (and that fault was inherent at the time of supply) then if you can't reach an agreement with the supplier, you have consumer protection legislation (Sale of Goods Act, etc) that allows you to take the case to the small claims court.

Of course, for that to succeed, you'd have to demonstrate that the supplier was in breach of contract, which would require that that you establish that the supplier failed to meet one of the implied terms embedded by the Sale of Goods Act, etc.

If goods are faulty, and that was the case at the time of supply, then the "satisfactory quality" condition wouldn't be met. And for the first 6 months, there is a legal presumption that faulty goods were faulty at the time of supply. So, you'd need to establish two things :-

- are they faulty?
- was that fault inherent at time of supply?

There is a legal presumption for the first 6 months that the fault was inherent, and so it would be for Scan to prove otherwise. But that brings us back to "are the goods faulty?"

It's only my opinion, and I'm sure a lot of people aren't going to like it, but if they're working within spec, it's hard to see how they are. If it subsequently turns out that there's a batch with faulty DTSs, then that will change. But if it turns out that motherboard BIOS', for example, need to be flashed to support the Wolfdale core DTS, then they aren't.

The next issue would be whether the 8400s are "fit for purpose". The issue there will be what that purpose is. It can either be implicit or explicit. Implicit is where it's obvious from the nature of the goods (like a raincoat keeping out the rain), and explicit is where you've stated "I want this CPU for a silent HTPC system and it's essential that temperatures under load don't exceed ....".

If you can establish that a mythical "reasonable man" would expect these temps to be below what they turn out to be, you might succeed with that argument. From what I've seen, good luck with it, though.

Goods must also be "as described" .... providing you've bought buy description and not inspected the goods, because anything you should have seen but didn't won't be acceptable for rejecting under "as described". That isn't an issue here though. So how have Scan and/or Intel described the goods?


It seems clear that these chips aren't working as a lot of people (me included) expected. But does that mean they're faulty? It certainly seems that the opinion of Scan and Intel, for now at least, is that they aren't. You can challenge that, of course, in the courts, but there's no guarantee you'd win.

In the meantime, while I wouldn't have closed that thread, it's hard to see what would have been achieved by leaving it open. We have general hardware forums where the issue about the CPU itself can be discussed, but as far as Scan support is concerned, it does, as Wesley said, seem to now be down to going round in circles.

[Mossy]

Any further updates on this Paul?

Reading around on the web it looks like it's probably a fault affecting P35 chipsets primarily across multiple vendors. Have you had any official word from anyone?

Intel are claiming there is nothing wrong with the TDiode spec in their CPUs, I'm inclined to agree as it's multiple boards affected...

Michael should be contacting you via email now.

Regards

[rabbid]

Is it definitely temps are up or just the readings are reported wrongly? Even AMD has had its share of misreported temps when new revisions come out.

Seems weird Intel slipped up, cos the previous Core2/Quads ran so cool. I guess I am glad I held off from the new 45nm CPUs and will hold off until these apparent temp issues are ironed out.

Hope you get some response better than 'its within parameters'.

[Hicks12]

thing that i dont get is america isnt having problems as far as i can tell, i know alot of people there and they have recently purchased and are all fine.
Hope this gets sorted as im having temp isssues to