Coolermaster Elite 340 PSU Passive not Active

[sibeer]

Hi there,

Received a nice timely delivery of yesterdays order about an hour ago. Checking the box for the case though I think you are mis-representing the Coolermaster Elite 340 product in your description:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Coole...60W-PSU-Fitted

You clearly list the PSU as Active, the case box clearly lists it as passive. Please could you clarify this and let me know what you can do to solve the situation.

[DavidM]

Apparently the PSU is active. If you are not happy with the case, please contact our returns team.

[sibeer]

If it is active then why is the box marked Passive?

http://www.sibeer.co.uk/photos/image...5134714395.jpg

I am happy with the case and the system needs to be built this weekend for a customer. I can put a different PSU in whilst I wait for you to supply an active one, but a full case return is not an option.

[TAKTAK]

If it is active then why is the box marked Passive?

http://www.sibeer.co.uk/photos/image...5134714395.jpg

I am happy with the case and the system needs to be built this weekend for a customer. I can put a different PSU in whilst I wait for you to supply an active one, but a full case return is not an option.

But it is all part of one product...

And what does it say on the actual PSU?

[DavidM]

It would not be possible to return just the psu - as the psu is part of the case.

If you have any queries about this product - please ring the returns department and they can assist further, and arrange a return if required.

[DavidM]

The PSU in the case is active not passive as it has a cooling fan. The box is marked as a passive due to a error on coolermasters side.

[Zak33]

Simple question for opening poster.

Does it have a fan?

[sibeer]

The "Active" and "Passive" on power supplies does not commonly reference whether it has a fan or not. It is a reference to the PFC (Power Factor Corrector). Hence why your case page describes the case as:

Coolermaster Elite 340 MicroATX Case with Coolermaster 460W Active aPFC PSU Fitted

Generally speaking those with an active PFC are considerably more efficient, hence better PSU's that command a higher price tag. This is one of the main components of a good PSU and a key reason I suggested this case to a client. I am a bit disappointed by the lack of technical knowledge on the part of a Scan representative. It is such a glaring mistake that I am a little suspicious that you are hoping I didn't know what I was talking about to get you out of having broken the law by misrepresenting an item for sale. Next you will be telling me aPFC is an Actual PFC and just confirmation that a PFC circuit is present.

Passively cooled PSU's are very rare and very expensive, I am certain Coolermaster would not be marking a massive range of Passive PSU's as included options on a budget case. Google "Coolermaster PSU Passive" and see which type of passive has more hits if you want to check up on my viewpoint.

[sibeer]

Any proof from Coolermaster or your tech guys that the PSU has an Active PFC yet? If not then as stated I am happy to build the system as is then swap the PSU on arrival of the advertised one. I am happy to do so for my customers benefit and will not charge you for the additional work / call out involved in this (despite the misrepresentation being completely the responsibility of Scan). Unfortunately there is no way that I can halt the build as it will loose me the job and damage my reputation to deliver on my promises.

[Mark@SCAN]

Hi,

If a mistake has been made and a product has been misadvertised/mis-represented on the website then the website will be changed to correctly reflect the correct information for the product in question.

In regards to the product if you no longer want the item as a result of this then we can arrange to have the product collected and returned for a full refund.

Do Coolermaster list a case and PSU with an aPFC?

I've just done a quick google for PFC and definitions on the web, unfortunatly it's all a little over my head

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor:

Passive PFC
The simplest way to control the harmonic current is to use a filter: it is possible to design a filter that passes current only at line frequency (e.g. 50 or 60 Hz). This filter reduces the harmonic current, which means that the non-linear device now looks like a linear load. At this point the power factor can be brought to near unity, using capacitors or inductors as required. This filter requires large-value high-current inductors, however, which are bulky and expensive.

However, even though a passive PFC requires an inductor about 10,000 times larger than the inductor in an active PFC,[4] the total cost of a passive PFC is typically lower than the total cost of an active PFC of the same capacity.[5]

This is a simple way of correcting the nonlinearity of a load by using capacitor banks. It is not as effective as active PFC[citation needed].[6][7][8][9][10]

Passive PFCs are typically more power efficient than active PFCs – a passive PFC on a switching computer PSU has a typical power efficiency of around 96%, while an active PFC has a typical efficiency of about 94%.[11]

Active PFC
An Active Power Factor Corrector (active PFC) is a power electronic system that controls the amount of power drawn by a load in order to obtain a Power factor as close as possible to unity. In most applications, the active PFC controls the input current of the load so that the current waveform is proportional to the mains voltage waveform (a sinewave).

Some types of active PFC are

Boost
Buck
Buck-boost
Active power factor correctors can be single-stage or multi-stage.

In the case of a switched-mode power supply, a boost converter is inserted between the bridge rectifier and the main input capacitors. The boost converter attempts to maintain a constant DC bus voltage on its output while drawing a current that is always in phase with and at the same frequency as the line voltage. Another switchmode converter inside the power supply produces the desired output voltage from the DC bus. This approach requires additional semiconductor switches and control electronics, but permits cheaper and smaller passive components. It is frequently used in practice. For example, SMPS with passive PFC can achieve power factor of about 0.7–0.75, SMPS with active PFC, up to 0.99 power factor, while a SMPS without any power factor correction has a power factor of only about 0.55–0.65[citation needed]. Due to their very wide input voltage range, many power supplies with active PFC can automatically adjust to operate on AC power from about 100 V (Japan) to 240 V (UK). That feature is particularly welcome in power supplies for laptops.

[sibeer]

Hi,

If a mistake has been made and a product has been misadvertised/mis-represented on the website then the website will be changed to correctly reflect the correct information for the product in question.

In regards to the product if you no longer want the item as a result of this then we can arrange to have the product collected and returned for a full refund.

Do Coolermaster list a case and PSU with an aPFC?

I've just done a quick google for PFC and definitions on the web, unfortunatly it's all a little over my head

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor:

Passive PFC
The simplest way to control the harmonic current is to use a filter: it is possible to design a filter that passes current only at line frequency (e.g. 50 or 60 Hz). This filter reduces the harmonic current, which means that the non-linear device now looks like a linear load. At this point the power factor can be brought to near unity, using capacitors or inductors as required. This filter requires large-value high-current inductors, however, which are bulky and expensive.

However, even though a passive PFC requires an inductor about 10,000 times larger than the inductor in an active PFC,[4] the total cost of a passive PFC is typically lower than the total cost of an active PFC of the same capacity.[5]

This is a simple way of correcting the nonlinearity of a load by using capacitor banks. It is not as effective as active PFC[citation needed].[6][7][8][9][10]

Passive PFCs are typically more power efficient than active PFCs – a passive PFC on a switching computer PSU has a typical power efficiency of around 96%, while an active PFC has a typical efficiency of about 94%.[11]

Active PFC
An Active Power Factor Corrector (active PFC) is a power electronic system that controls the amount of power drawn by a load in order to obtain a Power factor as close as possible to unity. In most applications, the active PFC controls the input current of the load so that the current waveform is proportional to the mains voltage waveform (a sinewave).

Some types of active PFC are

Boost
Buck
Buck-boost
Active power factor correctors can be single-stage or multi-stage.

In the case of a switched-mode power supply, a boost converter is inserted between the bridge rectifier and the main input capacitors. The boost converter attempts to maintain a constant DC bus voltage on its output while drawing a current that is always in phase with and at the same frequency as the line voltage. Another switchmode converter inside the power supply produces the desired output voltage from the DC bus. This approach requires additional semiconductor switches and control electronics, but permits cheaper and smaller passive components. It is frequently used in practice. For example, SMPS with passive PFC can achieve power factor of about 0.7–0.75, SMPS with active PFC, up to 0.99 power factor, while a SMPS without any power factor correction has a power factor of only about 0.55–0.65[citation needed]. Due to their very wide input voltage range, many power supplies with active PFC can automatically adjust to operate on AC power from about 100 V (Japan) to 240 V (UK). That feature is particularly welcome in power supplies for laptops.

The problem is that I want what I ordered and I can't delay the build for it. Had it been correctly listed I would have ordered alternate parts. I also may have used a different supplier completely as you were not the cheapest for some parts and I used some lesser alternatives to suit your stock. This was balanced by delivery savings of keeping all the eggs in one basket, but without a suitable case that goes out the window. As previously mentioned, this build was also ordered in time to be built this weekend and I am relying on my payment for said work.

I am sure you know that if you advertise a product, take payment for it, then deliver it, you are legally responsible for ensuring it is as advertised. Expecting me to be massively inconvenienced and delay the whole system due to your mistake is unreasonable. You are both legally and morally in the wrong to think it is just my problem and I need to bear all associated costs of the delay.

I do not want to go down a small claims court route over a £43+VAT case as I have better things to do with my time. As such I propose the following mutually simpler alternative: I install the system this weekend as supplied. Next week you supply me with either the specified or a mutually agreed equivalent PSU with an Active PFC. I fit the PSU free of charge and return the Passive one in a pre-paid envelope (or you book a collection for the day after the delivery). If this is not suitable I could broach with my customer whether he would accept the cheaper PSU with some form of recompense.

[Mark@SCAN]

As has already been advised we cannot take back only the PSU as the advertised product is both PSU and case.

In situations where a product has been mis-advertised there are a number of options I will detail below:

1.) Product is collected at no cost to yourself and refunded in full.

2.) Product advertised is supplied (impossible in this instance as checking the coolermaster website they do not list the Elite 340 case with an aPFC )

3.) A reduction in the price paid the mis-advertised product to reflect the lower specification.

Please contact the returns department tomorrow between 10:30 - 15:00 and a member of the returns department will be able to assist you with the call.

Regards

[sibeer]

As has already been advised we cannot take back only the PSU as the advertised product is both PSU and case.

In situations where a product has been mis-advertised there are a number of options I will detail below:

1.) Product is collected at no cost to yourself and refunded in full.

2.) Product advertised is supplied (impossible in this instance as checking the coolermaster website they do not list the Elite 340 case with an aPFC )

3.) A reduction in the price paid the mis-advertised product to reflect the lower specification.

Please contact the returns department tomorrow between 10:30 - 15:00 and a member of the returns department will be able to assist you with the call.

Regards

Thanks for the clarification Mark. According to the label it seems Coolermaster offer this part with the correct PSU as they list both regular and passive 460W supplies. Their web site shows no options of cases with PSU's whatsover, but there are suitable PSU's listed. It sounds though like the easiest option will be to see if the customer will manage with the cheaper supply and discuss a discount to keep him (and hence myself) happy. I will try the returns department tomorrow to get this sorted.

[sibeer]

Through chance I spoke to Mark when I called today. Quick answer from the telephones and efficient dealing with the query so can't fault that. He is speaking to the Customer Service team who are going to suggest a discount via email. Hopefully the discount will be fair and the website will be updated ASAP. My customer wasn't best pleased that he couldn't have what he had ordered, but I have convinced him that the PSU supplied is sufficient.

[sibeer]

Well you can hope for a fair refund, but it doesn't look like one is coming. I have been offered a £7 refund if I keep the item, whoopty do! If anyone can find a branded PSU where it only costs £7 difference between Passive and Active models at the same wattage I would be very surprised. Add in the inconveniance experienced and my time wasted contacting Scan numerous times and talking my client round to the incorrectly specified item and the offer is a little insulting. Despite me suggesting this is low and coming up with £12 worth of parts as something I would take instead, £7 is apparently the best they can do.

It would cost Scan more than this to organise a collection and delivery of a replacement. This low balling seems to be taking advantage of the knowledge that I had to use this system and have supplied it to my customer already.

[Mark@SCAN]

Hi,

Further to your post I can confirm that we offered to collect and refund both the mis-advertised case/PSU combo to which you declined.

As a gesture to reflect the fact a mistake had been made we would normally offer free carriage on a future order, however as you already benefit from the free carriage offer a refund of £7 + v.a.t was offered.

The goods suggested by you were to the value of £16inc v.a.t which on top we would have incurred further shipping costs of £7+ v.a.t