7 Day Rule-Strange!

[peterb]

The cost of DSR inevitably returns to the consumer, as someone has to pay for 'damaged stock' and it sure as hell won't be the retailer.

Why anyone would buy a CPU and then return it is beyond me (unless of course it was a poor overclocker).

Provided it is undamaged (if it was, I don't think it would be eligible for return) but has been opened, it would be sold as a grade B product. If it hasn't been opened andd is in original condition, I think it can be resold as new.

[Saracen]

Provided it is undamaged (if it was, I don't think it would be eligible for return) but has been opened, it would be sold as a grade B product. If it hasn't been opened andd is in original condition, I think it can be resold as new.

Well, Hydro said earlier that the DSRs were rather weighted in favour of the consumer and, in some respects, they rather are.

The way the Regs are worded is that providing the contract is one to which the DSR applies (i.e. consumer contract, not one of the categories of excepted contract and not for goods or services that aren't covered), and providing the consumer cancels in accordance with the DSR and within the time limit, then the right to refund is unconditional.

So, in theory at least, yes you'd be entitled to a refund even if the goods are damaged, and the seller would be in breach of their DSR duties if they didn't issue it, and within 30 days of the date of cancellation at most.

That right to a refund isn't dependent on the condition of the goods, or whether they're damaged and isn't even dependent on the goods having been received back.

That, on the surface of it, is wide open to abuse. Fortunately, there's a catch for anyone planning on abusing it. As I said earlier, if you cancel a contract, the consumer is under a duty to retain possession of the goods pending return to the seller, and to take "reasonable care" of them. And if you don't do so, the seller has the right to take action against you for losses incurred as a result of the breach of that duty.

So theoretically at least, the buyer is entitled to a refund, and within 30 days at most, even if they damaged to goods. But, if they try that, they might end up with a court claim against them as a result. But they'd still be entitled to the refund first, and the counter-claim afterwards.


At a more practical level, it'd be a cheeky consumer that sent damaged goods back expecting a refund, and took court action over it if the seller refuses to give the refund. And if the seller did refuse, the only way to enforce it might be to use a court. Doing so would take some cojones, IMHO, especially as courts have a habit of not liking being jerked around in a silly manner.

But, in theory, damaged or not, you'd be entitled to return goods for a refund.

[GoNz0]

did the OP take out scansure ?

then it dont matter if its damaged or not.

[Chris P]

It doesnt seem as though the product is damaged, so Scansure would not have helped in this case.

[Chris P]

steffan

Mark from our Returns dept tried to call you on your mobile @ 12.29 today but could not reach you, and also using your land line number : 12:33 today.

If you could contact Mark back so we can discuss this further.

Best Regards

[steffan]

Thanks to Mark and all the other replies, i have decided to keep the parts and build myself a new system, which is why i ordered the items, i also think i have been a bit harsh on Scan so sorry!

[Helios1234]

To revive this, under DSR:

(i) Do I return the item at my own cost? I'm assuming insured/signed for to gurantee receipt.
(ii) Is the retailer allow to take a "restocking fee" or similar or is the refund 100% value of the goods? - Edit: got answer to that one according to 3.48 - Full price of goods refunded.

[Agent]

To revive this, under DSR:

(i) Do I return the item at my own cost? I'm assuming insured/signed for to gurantee receipt.
(ii) Is the retailer allow to take a "restocking fee" or similar or is the refund 100% value of the goods?

I'll have to keep this brief due to having to dash, but

(i) http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf
Page 27

Return of goods following cancellation (Regulation 17)
Who pays for returning the goods if the consumer cancels
an order?
3.55 If you want the consumer to return the goods and to pay for that
return, you must make it clear in the contract and as part of the
required written information – see paragraph 3.10. If the consumer
then fails to return the goods, or sends them at your expense, you
can charge them the direct cost to you of the return, even if you
have already refunded the consumer’s money. You are not allowed
to make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an
administration charge.
3.56 If you did not include these details in the required written information
then you cannot charge anything. See paragraph 3.10. You can never
require consumers to pay the cost of returning substitute goods –
see paragraph 3.1 for more information.
3.57 If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will
have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.

(ii) A restocking fee can not be charged if you are returning goods under the DSR. The exception to this is if you ask / agree / the contract means that the company picks the goods up and charges you the direct cost of this service, that may be taken out. This is not related to the actual items though.

See Saracens post here : http://forums.hexus.net/general-disc...ml#post1324908

[Helios1234]

Thanks Agent, missed that bit.

In addition, having gone through Scan's T&C's, I cannot find anywhere that specifies that the customer has to pay for return of the goods under DSR (unless I'm mistaken). Can anyone confirm this please?

[They do specify however, that a return under their own code Part II (c)3, the customer pays for it.]

[Jasp]

Scans T & Cs, Part 2, Paragraph C.

c) Your right of cancellation

* The rights of cancellation set out below apply to any agreement between you and us save insofar as the agreement is in respect of computer software if it is unsealed by you.
* You have a right to cancel the agreement at any time before the expiry of a period of 7 working days beginning with the day after the day on which you receive the goods.
* You may cancel by giving us notice in any of the following ways:

* by a notice in writing which you leave at our address (given above);
* by a notice in writing which you send by post to our address (given above);
* by facsimile to our business facsimile number (given above);
* by electronic mail to our electronic mail address (given above);

and the notice shall operate to cancel the agreement between us.

* If you cancel the agreement :

* you must return the goods to us at the address given above ;
* the goods must be returned to us complete (please note the definition of goods given above) ;
* you are responsible for the cost of returning the goods to us at the address given above ;
* you are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods (including reusable packaging, manuals etc) until they are returned to us ;
* you are under a duty to take reasonable care to see that they are received by us and not damaged in transit ;
* we will reimburse any sum paid by you or on your behalf under or in relation to the agreement including the costs of carriage and any insurance which you directed us to incur.
* we will charge you the direct costs to us of recovering any goods supplied by us if you fail to return the goods to us.

Ive bolded the relevent line, given its stated in their T & C you have to pay the cost, personally i don't think its unfair.

[Saracen]

Thanks Agent, missed that bit.

In addition, having gone through Scan's T&C's, I cannot find anywhere that specifies that the customer has to pay for return of the goods under DSR (unless I'm mistaken). Can anyone confirm this please?

[They do specify however, that a return under their own code Part II (c)3, the customer pays for it.]

Their own code is what implements the DSR, though.

The DSR doesn't require a seller to say that certain rights are there by virtue of the DSR, but it does require certain information to be given, including who pays for returns and under what circumstances. Specifically, the DSR says

[B]
(2) The information required to be provided by paragraph (1) is -

(a) the information set out in paragraphs (i) to (vi) of Regulation 7(1)(a);

(b) information about the conditions and procedures for exercising the right to cancel under regulation 10, including -

(i) where a term of the contract requires (or the supplier intends that it will require) that the consumer shall return the goods to the supplier in the event of cancellation, notification of that requirement; and

(ii) information as to whether the consumer or the supplier would be responsible under these Regulations for the cost of returning any goods to the supplier, or the cost of his recovering them, if the consumer cancels the contract under regulation 10;

So Reg 7(c) simply says you must be informed of the liability for the cost of returning goods if you reject them under the DSR. It doesn't say you have to be told it's a DSR right.

And Scan's T&Cs says

c) Your right of cancellation

* The rights of cancellation set out below apply to any agreement between you and us save insofar as the agreement is in respect of computer software if it is unsealed by you.
* You have a right to cancel the agreement at any time before the expiry of a period of 7 working days beginning with the day after the day on which you receive the goods.
* You may cancel by giving us notice in any of the following ways:

* by a notice in writing which you leave at our address (given above);
* by a notice in writing which you send by post to our address (given above);
* by facsimile to our business facsimile number (given above);
* by electronic mail to our electronic mail address (given above);

and the notice shall operate to cancel the agreement between us.

* If you cancel the agreement :

* you must return the goods to us at the address given above ;
* the goods must be returned to us complete (please note the definition of goods given above) ;
* you are responsible for the cost of returning the goods to us at the address given above ;
* you are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods (including reusable packaging, manuals etc) until they are returned to us ;
* you are under a duty to take reasonable care to see that they are received by us and not damaged in transit ;
* we will reimburse any sum paid by you or on your behalf under or in relation to the agreement including the costs of carriage and any insurance which you directed us to incur.
* we will charge you the direct costs to us of recovering any goods supplied by us if you fail to return the goods to us.

Quite clearly, Scan's T&Cs cover the requirements of the DSR, notifying you of the right to cancel, and that you bear the cost of returning goods to Scan ..... unless you are also rejecting them under some other contract term, or if the goods were a substitute for what was actually ordered. If, for instance, there's some Sale of Goods Act issue, where goods aren't fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality, etc, and you could reject them on that basis, then you don't have to pay for the return. In general, though, if you just change your mind, you do pay that cost.

[RFV]

slightly off topic but similar. I ordered something online, (not from Scan), there wasn't a manufacturer's product number for the I item ordered, just a description of the product and an order number.
The goods I received were not as advertised on the e-tailers website, the specs were very different to what was advertised.

[Helios1234]

Returning them at buyer's cost is fair enough. Just thought I'd double check. Useful to know in general too.

Thanks for the clarification.

[rabbid]

slightly off topic but similar. I ordered something online, (not from Scan), there wasn't a manufacturer's product number for the I item ordered, just a description of the product and an order number.
The goods I received were not as advertised on the e-tailers website, the specs were very different to what was advertised.

That should fall under breach of contract and they should either pick it up at their cost and replace it with the item, if available, or else refund you. Alternatively you and they may agree on a partial refund or credit or some other form of compensation if you agree to keep that item (with lower or unsuitable spec presumably?)

[Saracen]

That should fall under breach of contract and they should either pick it up at their cost and replace it with the item, if available, or else refund you. Alternatively you and they may agree on a partial refund or credit or some other form of compensation if you agree to keep that item (with lower or unsuitable spec presumably?)

For contracts covered by the Distance Selling Regs, it also falls under them.

If the DSR applies, the supplier is required to inform the consumer, in advance, if they intend to substitute goods if those ordered aren't available, and to inform the consumer that the supplier will bear the cost of collection if the consumer declines the substitute.

From what he said, the supplier has supplied a substitute. In which case, the consumer can still cancel the contract under the DSR in the normal way, the supply must provide a full refund, including outbound shipping costs, and can't even deduct the direct cost of collecting the goods if the customer doesn't return them. The option to deduct direct costs of collection is Reg 14 (5), and 14(7) expressly says that 14(5) doesn't apply to returning substitute goods.

In other words, the supplier can opt to supply substitute goods (of, and I quote the DSR .... "equivalent quality and price") IF he notified the consumer in advance that he may do so, and if he does, then the supply bears the risk of costs incurred by doing so if the consumer doesn't want them. And if the consumer does return the goods at his own cost, he is entitled to have that cost reimbursed.

[shaithis]

slightly off topic but similar. I ordered something online, (not from Scan), there wasn't a manufacturer's product number for the I item ordered, just a description of the product and an order number.
The goods I received were not as advertised on the e-tailers website, the specs were very different to what was advertised.

I had this same problem with OcUK (as detailed here).....it took almost a week of emails but they finally caved-in and came and collected it at their cost.