Ebay & PayPal........They are taking over the world with new terms!!!

[joshwa]

Info here on the new terms
PayPal funds freeze plan draws fire - Feb. 8, 2008

PayPal estimates that its new hold policy will affect less than 5% of eBay transactions, and it emphasizes that only relatively untested sellers risk incurring a freeze. Merchants who have been registered with eBay for more than six months, have a feedback score of 100 or higher (meaning they've received positive comments for at least that many transactions), and have a "dissatisfied buyer" rate of less than 5% will never have their funds held.

I have less than 100 feedbacks, which I guess is why I was being targetted, as a "risk" to people who wanted to buy £1 CDs... which means I doubt very much I'll ever sell anything on ebay again... as Paypal holding my funds for 21 days is simply unacceptable.

[danroyle]

i have only ever had one issue on ebay buying from some german rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish

but twice i have done paypal disputes over money and won both times and never recieved a penny back.

ebay sucks for computer stuff but there are still good deals to be had

last week bought a £650 daiwa fast carpin 14.5m pole for £75 needed new top kits for it but they were £25 each so cost me £125 for a £650 pole can't complain at all there.

but paypal does suck paid thousands in fees but when i got ripped off for £150 i get nothing back

[PenguinJim]

Info here on the new terms
PayPal funds freeze plan draws fire - Feb. 8, 2008



I have less than 100 feedbacks, which I guess is why I was being targetted, as a "risk" to people who wanted to buy £1 CDs... which means I doubt very much I'll ever sell anything on ebay again... as Paypal holding my funds for 21 days is simply unacceptable.

Ah, that's exactly what I was after, cheers Joshwa. At least Blitzen got two words right out of the entire policy. Sometimes I wonder if he makes all his factual errors on purpose.

100 positive feedbacks seems far too high to me. They could do some sort of scale thing - 25 100% positive feedbacks, 50 feedbacks at 98+%, or 100 feedbacks at 95+%.

And on top of having PayPal as a requirement for listings, it's really quite offensive. Hopefully they will discover that their system precludes too many people, and adjust it forthwith.

I consider myself lucky that I'm not affected by any of these changes - I always included PayPal as an option when selling (makes International payments a lot easier), and I have plenty of positive feedback. But I may well be affected by these changes anyway, indirectly, through the decrease in sellers and the increased animosity towards eBay/Paypal.

[phoenix198]

I've only had one experience of Paypal trying to hold my money; some scally twunt (yes, he was from Liverpool) decided he'd try to claim non-delivery of goods after he'd received them and I received email notification of this from Paypal.

Fortunately I had documented proof of both dispatch and delivery in electronic format and it only took PayPal 48 hrs to acknowledge my counter-claim and release the funds.

I forwarded the email trail and documentation on to eBay who (as usual) only acknowledged receipt and stated that hey would investigate. A search on the buyer's user name some days later showed that (surprise, surprise) he was 'no longer a registered eBay member'.

[Jodo]

And here's the latest.......

eBay have just announced that from June 17th seller's on eBay Australia will be forced to accept PayPal ONLY (or cash on collection). Visa and Mastercard will only be allowed through PayPal. No cheque's, PO's, etc.



Surely now coming to a UK site near you soon....

[d19z]

Ahhh a thread that allows me to vent my thoughts.

As with many of you, I too have now decided to quit selling or buying anything on ebay, I don't agree the slightest with thier tactics, as a seller and a buyer I have been conned any paypal did little to help me reinburse my lost funds.

My latest paypal battle includes a seller who I know is in receipt of the parcel I sent out on the 5th of April, has taken it, and know intiated a claim which makes me lost in excess of £45, As a legitimate seller I was unaware of the types of low life scums and predators which paypal aide and encougrage with thier latest proposals...

With regards to the above, I sold an item on eBay, I listed the options as ;
1st Class Standard
Parcel Force 48

The seller chose the cheaper option, by about a pound, I sent the item which they paid for by first class, I paid for the item at my local post office, A receipt was given to me not detailing in the slightest where the item was going, as I was in a hurry I forgot to ask to let me write down on the printed receipt where the item was going to and then get it stamped, it's been two weeks since the time of posting, I sent 3 items out at in a similar time frame, the rest I have got feedback from the buyers, entailing they are happy with the item they've received, one buyer left it till two weeks without any questions being sent by eBay messages, and then out of the blue opened a dispute.

I responded to the dispute communicating that I did send the parcel out, by the service he paid for and offered proof by uploading the receipt, I also said I phoned Royal Mail who refused to give me the contact numbers of the depot where the item might have been held, and were only prepared to start a search of the item once a certain time period has passed, so that was a dead end.

I received another worrying e-mail sent by paypal saying the buyer has escalated the dispute to a claim, now I have been given options by paypal, those options include giving the buyer a refund, and providing the buyer with tracking information.

Since the item was sent out by Royal Mail's First Class (must be a pun....) delivery, I have no reference I am able to post, indefinitly, the buyer will get a full refund for the item, the item itself, and the seller me, will be left out of pocket of the item I sent, the funds received from the buyer, and the postage paid which was ~ £9.

With this much hassle it's just not worth selling on eBay, unless you are very avid when it comes to selling, expose and close all of the holes, you as a seller are vulnerable and paypal only provides the framework for the buyer to con you.

If anyone has been in this situation or anyone have any extra input, that'll clear me and get my well earned funds back I'd be ever greatful and even happy to share those funds with you, PLEASE HELP.

[Blitzen]

Ah, that's exactly what I was after, cheers Joshwa. At least Blitzen got two words right out of the entire policy

I was right...........(and as usual you were wrong)........i just couldnt be bothered to make the effort for you. Its just the fact that I dont care if you lose money thats all.

I posted for anyone elses benefit.
You are that pathetic and insignificant that i even have you on my ignore list. I didnt think it would be possible for me to find someone SO BORING that i couldnt even be bothered to argue with them......congratulations PenguinJim......because you managed it


(oh.......and please dont PM me your insults and drivel again......thats just as lame as it gets).

[joshwa]

Since the item was sent out by Royal Mail's First Class (must be a pun....) delivery, I have no reference I am able to post, indefinitly, the buyer will get a full refund for the item, the item itself, and the seller me, will be left out of pocket of the item I sent, the funds received from the buyer, and the postage paid which was ~ £9.

This is why you have to send everything recorded delivery / special delivery or through a parcel company with online tracking. You are not covered by paypal seller protection UNLESS you send the item using an online trackable method of postage, send to a verfied buyer, with a confirmed address @ paypal.

The full terms to qualify for seller protection are: (summarised from paypal terms and conditions):
- You must have a verified busines, or premier account
- The transaction must be between US, UK or Canadian buyer/seller
- It must say "Seller protection policy eligible" on the transaction details page
- You must accept a single payment from one paypal account
- You must not charge a surcharge for accepting paypal
- You must post within 7 days to the "confimed address" on the transaction details page
- You must have trackable online proof of delivery for EVERYTHING you post, and items over £150 must be signed for, you are not covered if you hand deliver the item or if someone collects it from you!
- You must respond to paypals requests for info within their timescales

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...ide#spp-policy

[joshwa]

Buyers / Sellers are only protected up to a certain financial amount if the sale is on ebay... part 13.9 from here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...ide#pbp-policy

13.9 eBay Items Eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection. Every item on eBay (except Live Auctions and vehicles) that meets the above requirements is eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to $200.00 USD / £150 (Basic Tier Coverage Amount), but items are only eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to $2,000.00 USD / £500 (Top Tier Coverage Amount) and should be identified as eligible items in the eBay listing if:
sellers eBay feedback rating is at least 50;
At least 98% of the sellers eBay feedback is positive;
The seller has a Verified Premier or Verified Business Account in good standing;
The listing was on an eligible eBay site (eBay.com and certain other eBay sites self identified as such)
PayPal is listed as an acceptable payment method; and
The seller is a PayPal User from one of the following countries: ...snip

And you are not covered for other things, like buying your friend plane tickets...

These programs only cover payments for tangible, physical goods. All other payments, such as payments for intangibles, services, airline flight tickets, or licenses and other access to digital content are not covered by any Buyer Protection Program that we offer (but may be covered by Chargeback rights).

However, if you pay with a credit card on file - your credit card company will always cover your for purchases...

But if you buy / sell items outside of ebay, then your protection is even less. (and the maximum protection amount seems to be £150)

Basically it's a nightmare of a system - designed to *try* and be secure... BUT it's not secure, and generally geared in favour of paypal in any kind of dispute, because they aren't a real bank, and you would get much better security by paying with credit card, in person, in a shop, where you physically receive the goods, at the same time as paying. And when selling, you would be better off accepting a bank transfer for free, and then posting the item when you know you have the money in your bank account, or alternatively get the buyer to collect and pay cash.

[PenguinJim]

I was right...........(and as usual you were wrong)........i just couldnt be bothered to make the effort for you. Its just the fact that I dont care if you lose money thats all.

I posted for anyone elses benefit.
You are that pathetic and insignificant that i even have you on my ignore list. I didnt think it would be possible for me to find someone SO BORING that i couldnt even be bothered to argue with them......congratulations PenguinJim......because you managed it


(oh.......and please dont PM me your insults and drivel again......thats just as lame as it gets).

I don't understand how you manage to read my posts when you have me on ignore - you claimed you had me on ignore in another thread a couple of months back, but I guess you were lying then, too. I wonder if you edited your post the next day because you originally broke down in tears and called me a paedophile again? Just to make sure people understand what's going on with PayPal, let's review:

Did you know that unless you have a certain number of sales in an alloted time, once a buyer pays you via PayPal, they will hold the funds for up to 28 days so you cannot release the funds to your bank....

Well, it's not a certain number of sales in an allotted time, and it's not 28 days. So I'd go so far as to say that Blitzen's statement is... da da da daaah... factually incorrect! I wouldn't trust any of his other 'facts' unless he has a link, people, so make sure you don't just take his word for anything. After all, he thought eBid was a new site.

BUT! Did you know that unless you were born under a donkey on a cloudy day between 1973 and 1994, once a buyer pays you via PayPal, they will hold the funds for up to 4096 days so you cannot release the funds to your bank. I don't have the link for it, but I read it on EBAY forums and they linked to an EBAY page.

Wow! Lying to people on Hexus is fun! I see why you do it, Blitzen! Still not sure why you attack people all the time, though.

This is why you have to send everything recorded delivery / special delivery or through a parcel company with online tracking. You are not covered by paypal seller protection UNLESS you send the item using an online trackable method of postage, send to a verfied buyer, with a confirmed address @ paypal.

The full terms to qualify for seller protection are: (summarised from paypal terms and conditions):
- You must have a verified busines, or premier account
- The transaction must be between US, UK or Canadian buyer/seller
- It must say "Seller protection policy eligible" on the transaction details page
- You must accept a single payment from one paypal account
- You must not charge a surcharge for accepting paypal
- You must post within 7 days to the "confimed address" on the transaction details page
- You must have trackable online proof of delivery for EVERYTHING you post, and items over £150 must be signed for, you are not covered if you hand deliver the item or if someone collects it from you!
- You must respond to paypals requests for info within their timescales

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...ide#spp-policy

Ye Gods, I tried to read through the full terms and conditions in that link, but it was... heavy! I checked the Seller Protection summary from my own account (hey, I'm not Captain Small Print), there was also this bit:

What is not covered under Seller Protection:

* 'Significantly-not-as-described' chargeback claims
* Transactions to non-US buyers.
* Transactions to US buyers who do not have Confirmed Addresses
* Any transactions in which the seller did not follow the SPP guidelines

This was from a search from my UK account, but I'm not sure how it applies - does this mean that UK sellers aren't covered for selling to UK buyers? Surely not!

Still, even though I rarely sell on eBay (and haven't had a 'selling' problem yet), I think I might remove the 'International' option from my auctions. Which is a shame, as I've had a few non-UK people win my auctions, and never had a problem. But, all things considered, I expect over the next few months I'll be looking for alternatives to eBay. (I'll probably just use my eight-year-old eBid account )

[timread]

Apparently credit card companies are starting to class payment of items purchased online as 'cash advances' - it appears that this reduces their legal obligations to refund the buyer and carry out a chargeback and fee against the seller, in the event of a dispute.

There's an article on the Register about this - funnily enough, mentioning PayPal and Ebay - since they're starting to class charging up your PayPal account as a cash advance.

The web rip-offs nobody cares about | The Register

Yet another way the banks, Ebay and PayPal are coming together to shaft the consumer.

[colmo]

If eBay is using it's monopoly in one market (online auctions) to control another market (online payment), by a)making Paypal compulsory and b) not allowing people to use competing services (like Google Checkout, then it's pretty blatant anti-competitive business.

For the UK, this is what the Office of Fair Trading is for - they're facing down the supermarkets and tobacco industry, so I don't think eBay/Paypal would scare them off. A quick search doesn't reveal any existing campaign sites or details of existing petitions, so I guess it's time to get writing, either directly to the OFT or our MPs.

The quality (or lack thereof) of Paypal is a separate issue.