Do you shop at OcUK?

[jimborae]

I did not delete your post - don't assume

The bottom line is this is the shopping section of the forum. How they run their forum is up to them. Don't like it? Don't visit.
Think their forum reflects badly on OCUK? Don't buy from them.

As for the legal implication - unless you're a lawyer, its not really fair to say that. The law that governs things like this is not simple and very complex.

OCUK talk being suppressed? I suppose it depends at which way you look at it. We are just tired of seeing the same crap come up time and time again, along with the same misinformation that comes with it (OCUK asked to be removed from the HEXUS trust is my favourite!) - if we correct it, it doesn't get listened to anyway. The threads simply turn into flame bait for OCUK haters.

Oh and its not _because_ its OCUK that I said that - the same would go for any forum that is constantly getting bashed. If people have an issue with them - tell them, not complain about it here.

There is no need to add it to the rules (not that people would listen to it ) when we can simply ask in threads. That IMO is more than enough to know where you stand - if you're still unsure, ask one of us If anything towards a certain retailer / forum was added in the rules it would simply lead to threads asking "Why can't we talk about XYZ", leading to far more "conspiracy theories" than those that come (if there are any ) from us asking for people not to bash other forums.

To keep it nice and simple
Any retailer shop comments that are professional = fine
Any retailer shop comments that are abusive and add nothing to the conversation = are not
Bashing other forums for their rules / running = are not

I never said you deleted my post - don't assume

I don't visit their forums.

I do think the their forums reflect on badly OCUK (brand damage and marketing come to mind), thus I don't buy from them anymore.

No I'm not a lawyer I'm a data security professional, I do however hold a law degree and my sister is a senior partner at a firm of lawyers so I like to think I'm pretty well versed in the law.

As for the rest - thank you for the clarification. Message received & understood, over and out.

[ralind66]

personally speaking i have found e-buyer to be the best, service,delivery.etc. overclockers are ok but as it has said before they are a bit on the pricey side.

[Agent]

I never said you deleted my post - don't assume

Well quoting me and then saying "By deleting my post"....it comes across like that

Hope you can understand the reasoning and what I'm saying though

Cheers mate

[Saracen]

.....
No I'm not a lawyer I'm a data security professional, I do however hold a law degree and my sister is a senior partner at a firm of lawyers so I like to think I'm pretty well versed in the law.

Then you should know that the law regarding defamation is complex, and it doesn't require that either you or Hexus be hosting the file. You'll be aware, I assume, that if something defamatory gets said, it can result in both the person saying it and the publisher being legally liable.

All the time I've been a member of Hexus, discussion of OCUK and their forums has been suppressed yet no one will give a direct and complete explanation of why. That's fine and I can live with that, it's the owner of Hexus' right but really it should be in the forum rules and then we all know where we stand.

I've given an explanation in the past, and more than once. How complete it is is another matter. But here it is again.

Relations between OcUK and Hexus aren't particularly good. To try and give a "complete explanation" of how that came about would require trying to explain how things developed over several years. Suffice it to say that Hexus isn't a well-liked name among the powers that be at OcUK and, certainly for a long time, any mention of us there was prohibited and our name in their auto-filter, so it would be replaced by stars. As far as I know, it still is in that filter.

Next, for a whole series of reasons, there are a lot of people that dislike OcUK, and quite a few of them post here. For the vast majority of those posters we, the Hexus team, have no way of knowing whether the reason they dislike OcUK is justified or not. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But as an ex-OcUK mod, I do know that some people got the serious hump with both OcUK mods and OcUK because, for example, they simply wouldn't follow rules and got banned as a result.

Let me give you an example. Not long after I joined the mod team there, a couple of members had a late night swearing session. They were posting the f-word all over the place, and I don't mean once or twice, but repeatedly. My guess is that either drugs or drink, or maybe both were involved. Myself and another mod went round after these two, initially editing that word out, but it takes sufficiently long that they were posting it faster than we could edit it out. So we starting deleting posts wherever we found it, and sent warnings to stop doing it. Far from them stopping, that resulted in a series of abusive posts, and threats of personal violence against the two of us. And for what? Deleting posts consisting of pretty much nothing other than Anglo-Saxon expletives. So they were banned. And they went off bad-mouthing the pair of us on other forums, about how we were "Nazis". And yes, that was one of the times that accusation was thrown at us, and simply because we were enforcing well-known rules on a pair of apparently drunken foul-mouthed idiots.

So .... back to that reputation. Is it justified? I don't know. My personal guess is that some people have what they feel is good reason, but some of it builds up via the snowball effect. If there's enough bad 'press', people reading about it come to believe it because they read it, whether it's true or not. There is simply no way for us, the Hexus team, to be sure of the facts behind every incident. And that's close to a common-sense plain-language definition of defamation, if the bad-mouthing results in damage.

Now, when we get a thread involving OcUK, it inevitably attracts a series of people moaning about them. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't know (or maybe don't care) where the line is between what could have legal implications and what can't.

I had a quick look at the file you referred to. It looked to me as if it had the distinct possibility of causing problems, and we don't want to be the arbiters of whether the contents of that file are actionable or not. I don't know, or care, who got hold of the contents of that file, or how. But it wouldn't surprise me to find it involved criminal access. Either that, or it was an insider an involved an insider guilty of a breach of trust. But wherever it came from, it's nothing to do with Hexus and not something we want to get involved in. And if it was left on here, we would end up getting involved, because people would end up commenting on it and the contents.

Do you want to guarantee, and by that I mean indemnify Hexus against all legal costs that could be incurred if people read that file, and then start posting defamatory comments on Hexus because of it? Will you guarantee to reimburse our legal costs if that gets out of hand? No, thought not.

See, when something like that is up here, it gets discussed. It's an opportunity for people that dislike OcUK to have a poke, and regardless of whether they have justification for that dislike or not, Hexus is not here to be a platform for an anti-OcUK campaign.

So as a result, we have a fine line to walk between banning all mention of OcUK, and it ending up with material with legal implications. We walk that line by trying to allow discussion of OcUK where legitimate, as evidenced by this thread, but stopping it before it gets out of hand.

As for putting it in the rules, put what in the rules? We don't want to ban mentioning them, whether it be good or bad opinion. We don't want to put their name into our filters. Why would we? But nor can we permit any and every allegations to be made, without limit, because it can go over that line into actionable territory quickly and easily. So we allow them to be discussed, but try to step in when it looks like a situation has the potential to go too far ... as did that file.

And if you can think of a way to explain, clearly and concisely, in a way that covers all potential situations, exactly how far that is so that we can put it in the rules, I'd be delighted to add it to the them. Meantime, it's a judgement call for the moderating team to deal with, as and when it arises. Like now.


Oh, and for the record, I deleted the mention in your post (and put my name by it), but I didn't delete any posts either.

[jimborae]

Thank you both for the replies, safe to say I'm glad I'm not mod as it's obviously a bit of tight rope you have to walk where this subject is concerned. Therefore I'll say no more on the subject, I've got all the clarification I need and I feel, as maybe you both do, that we're flogging a dead horse here.

And no I won't be indemnifying Hexus as there is no need and I have no money.

[Blitzen]

OCUK talk being suppressed? I suppose it depends at which way you look at it. We are just tired of seeing the same crap come up time and time again, along with the same misinformation that comes with it (OCUK asked to be removed from the HEXUS trust is my favourite!) - if we correct it, it doesn't get listened to anyway. The threads simply turn into flame bait for OCUK haters.

That 'crap' as you call it generates decent discussion though.

Also...as i asked the question you seem to despise so much, its not actually correct to assume i knew the answer. I didnt so assumed otherwise, wrongly i agree, but there was nothing to support it either way.

[Agent]

That 'crap' as you call it generates decent discussion though.

If it generated decent discussion, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

An OCUK thread starts about their shop and within the first page, its almost certain that you will have someone bashing their forums. That is not 'decent discussion', its tiresome non-sense, often from the same people

Also...as i asked the question you seem to despise so much, its not actually correct to assume i knew the answer. I didnt so assumed otherwise, wrongly i agree, but there was nothing to support it either way.

Assume you knew the answer to what? Not sure what you mean here?
I can't see you asking any question in this thread to me? - crossed wires?

[SiM]

Found a funny quote on the wow forums... Its about the shop of course (not the forums).

bunch of workshy muppets who make PC World staff look like NASA technicians, who'd rather play football with packaging behind the offices than drag their reputation out of the mire it's quickly sinking into

[moogle]

oh that football bit is so true
Always a dent or damage to the boxes (retail)

[Bios]

Found a funny quote on the wow forums... Its about the shop of course (not the forums).

I loved reading that.

[TheReaFireblade]

Not long after I joined the mod team there, a couple of members had a late night swearing session. They were posting the f-word all over the place, and I don't mean once or twice, but repeatedly.
Myself and another mod went round after these two, initially editing that word out, but it takes sufficiently long that they were posting it faster than we could edit it out.

It's unlikely you were editing out/deleting **** (asterixed words)... so why wasn't the f-word in the swear filter to begin with, such that MODs/Admin's didn't have to go around editing posts

Or was it simply the implication of the f-word?

[burtie]

For the love of god its just an online shop if your not happy buying from them don't. There are many other online shops, buy from them. And they all have there faults.
Its just computer hardware get over it.Their is more to life than making a thread about bloody OCUK.

ITS JUST AN ONLINE SHOP.

[moogle]

For the love of god its just an online shop if your not happy buying from them don't. There are many other online shops, buy from them. And they all have there faults.
Its just computer hardware get over it.Their is more to life than making a thread about bloody OCUK.

ITS JUST AN ONLINE SHOP.

the op only wanted to know.

there's more to life than having a fit over an OcUK thread...

there are many others posts, if you don't like this one don't post in it

[Saracen]

It's unlikely you were editing out/deleting **** (asterixed words)... so why wasn't the f-word in the swear filter to begin with, such that MODs/Admin's didn't have to go around editing posts

Or was it simply the implication of the f-word?

It was the f-word. Not an implication.

As for why it wasn't in the filter, I don't know. I was a mod, not an admin. It was many years ago. Maybe there wasn't a filter at that point. Maybe the admin felt that a rule was (or should have been) enough to prevent it being used. Or maybe, if I remember correctly, it was that swearing was banned full-stop, and that even swearing fully or partially starred out was unacceptable. So, if you had a filter doing the starring ....

And, of course, if people would actually obey the rules they have agreed to as part of signing up, it wouldn't need filters, would it?

[Agent]

Swear words in the filter on VB was very easy to bypass until recently too.
If people wanted to swear, they could swear.

The last page has pretty much just been about their forums....now if this can't be kept to retailer comments, I'm going to close it - this isn't what this section is for

[kr00t0n]

I've used a combination of OCUK/EBuyer over the years, and Scan the odd time for a specific item I can't get elsewhere.

Back then, Scan was more expensive than the others, now it's OCUK.

I hardly ever buy from them, but I find their shop layout better than anyone else's, and I have used their forums extensively for 4 years.