Python or Java?

[UltraMagnus]

looking to get back into this programming lark, haven't touched an IDE since being mentally scarred by being forced to learn VB6

I am currently tossing up between Python and Java, as both seem to be relatively easy and open. i guess i am currently leaning towards python as it seems to be an easier language, however java does seem to have better documented APIs and Libraries.

thanks in advance!

[Spud1]

Just out of interest - why python and java as two options out of all the languages you could pick?

I would reccomend that you start with C# and Microsoft .NET myself; a great language to learn from the start that will teach you the basic fundamentals of programming (which VB won't have taught you) and ease you in fairly gently. It will also be very useful to you in later life if you ever decide to get into the programming game on a professional level as .NET really is fast becoming the future of Windows programming

You can also jump straight in to GUI programming very quickly without messing around with Swing etc - Winforms or WPF/Xaml makes it very easy to develop advanced guis with as much or as little actual code as you like. This is made even easier by the fact that the express editions of Visual Studio (THE definitive IDE, something which I think almost all programmers will agree on) are provided free my Microsoft.

Theres plenty of documentation for C#/.net, so it should be easy to get started. Plenty of .NET developers on here too if you get stuck so you can always ask for help if needed.

Of course i'm biased as I'm a C# developer..but I would seriously suggest looking at C# as a language to start with

[yamangman]

I would start with Java OR Python if those were my choices. I think C# and .net leave a little too much to the imagination - however it really depends how you approach the subject to be honest. For instance many reommend an suse or ubuntu-based linux if you wanted to learn that OS. I would suggest slackware or BSD if you wanted to develop an appreciation of the technology. Personally I began with Pascal, then ASM and C.

[directhex]

i'd pick c# as a language, personally

it's java with the stupid beaten out of it

[UltraMagnus]

hmm... ok, i will look into C# then. only reason i didn't consider it was because i was under the impression that C was a lower level (and, thus, harder) language than python or java

as for .Net, well, i am programming linux (or, i was hoping to keep it portable anyway), so thats about as likely as running IE on linux (yes, i know you can do it through wine...)

thanks for the advice.

[yamangman]

Main Page - Mono

I'd still suggest Java first. C# and C are entirely different. I'd suggest doing a bit of research yourself than just guessing.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

i am a java man myself and when i do start using c# it will be a breeze has its basicly microsofts version of java

[chrestomanci]

I am a Java programmer, though I have not done so professionally for a number of years, and I would like to learn Python, though sofar all I have done about it is read the O'Reily book.

Couple of factors. One is the Eclipse IDE. It is very good, and it is free. It was originally written in Java as a Java IDE, and it does that best, with an excellent editor (that can automate almost anything), and great debugging and profiling tools. It does support other languages, including python, but the support will be less advanced than it is for Java.

The other factor is what you want to program. In my experience it is very hard to learn to program without a project, so your choice of project will affect your choice of language. For example, the reason I became interested in Python is that Nokia released a Python runtime for their smartphones a couple of years ago, and I wanted to try programming it. (Arguably I could have done the same in MIDP, but the MIDP sandbox is very tight, making the project I was interested in very hard).

[Spud1]

i am a java man myself and when i do start using c# it will be a breeze has its basicly microsofts version of java

Erm no, its not. Part of the syntax is similar (as with lots of popular oo languages) but thats there the similarity ends. Microsofts version of java is/was J#..which is completely unrelated.

C# does show certain syntaxical roots with C, however it really is a much higher level language that lets you ignore things like memory management/pointers if you want to (although you can still manage memory yourself and use the power of pointers if you want to).

If your developing for linux then mono will let you run the majority of .NET code quite nicely, although admittedly mono is missing a few key class libraries which make life easier for you.

[chrestomanci]

I am a Java programmer, though I have not done so professionally for a number of years, and I would like to learn Python, though sofar all I have done about it is read the O'Reily book.

Couple of factors. One is the Eclipse IDE. It is very good, and it is free. It was originally written in Java as a Java IDE, and it does that best, with an excellent editor (that can automate almost anything), and great debugging and profiling tools. It does support other languages, including python, but the support will be less advanced than it is for Java.

The other factor is what you want to program. In my experience it is very hard to learn to program without a project, so your choice of project will affect your choice of language. For example, the reason I became interested in Python is that Nokia released a Python runtime for their smartphones a couple of years ago, and I wanted to try programming it. (Arguably I could have done the same in MIDP, but the MIDP sandbox is very tight, making the project I was interested in very hard).

[Kezzer]

Erm no, its not. Part of the syntax is similar (as with lots of popular oo languages) but thats there the similarity ends. Microsofts version of java is/was J#..which is completely unrelated.

C# does show certain syntaxical roots with C, however it really is a much higher level language that lets you ignore things like memory management/pointers if you want to (although you can still manage memory yourself and use the power of pointers if you want to).

If your developing for linux then mono will let you run the majority of .NET code quite nicely, although admittedly mono is missing a few key class libraries which make life easier for you.

I did some professional C# development, and I'm primarily a Java developer. I found C# extremely easy to get on with for the reason that the C# libs do mimic the Java ones almost exactly the same. C# is just Java with a load of extra language features (partial classes etc.). All of the libs are very, very similar.

And yes, C# was a follow-up of Java really, the .NET framework is a Virtual Machine, if you think about it. Microsoft are renowned for making their own versions of everything in existence. After working for one of the top software companies in the world, and speaking to 10+ year developers about Microsoft's technology they tended to start off saying "X language (belongong to Microsoft) is just a rip of Y language (of some other company) anyway".

C# has some handy features comparitive to Java, but only if they're needed. I was more for the ability to use structs in C#, something which I feel Java should've retained.

If I had time to choose a primary language, then it'd most probably be C++ anyway

[directhex]

a few c# apps for linux:













portability with c# is a function of programmer ability - if your code is 100% managed (or only makes calls to unmanaged libraries which are also cross-platform), and you don't insert system-dependent stupidisms (i.e. always use Path.Combine()) then it's portable

[directhex]

cross-platform app i've been writing for work.

in ubuntu:


in ubuntu (text mode version):


in vista, running on ms.net not mono:

[UltraMagnus]

The other factor is what you want to program. In my experience it is very hard to learn to program without a project, so your choice of project will affect your choice of language. For example, the reason I became interested in Python is that Nokia released a Python runtime for their smartphones a couple of years ago, and I wanted to try programming it. (Arguably I could have done the same in MIDP, but the MIDP sandbox is very tight, making the project I was interested in very hard).

well, my first idea for a project was an IRC bot (not just scripting some eggdrop thing) to be honest, dont have a clue how ambitious that is... but i find it hard to do anything if it isn't a challenge. perhaps i am a masochist? (but, then again, some people would say all programmers are... heh)

didn't realise C# was different to C... guess that explains my confusion a little.

[chrestomanci]

well, my first idea for a project was an IRC bot (not just scripting some eggdrop thing) to be honest, dont have a clue how ambitious that is... but i find it hard to do anything if it isn't a challenge. perhaps i am a masochist? (but, then again, some people would say all programmers are... heh)

With anything like that, the difference between fairly hard and very easy will be in the availability of libraries to do the heavy lifting.

A quick google search turned up some python] and java IRC libraries, so it should be easy in either language, though obviously the quality of those libraries will be a factor, so if one is mature and the other is still a work in progress the decision will be made for you.

Another factor will be the regular expression engines. If you don't know, regular expressions are a mini language used to find and match fragments of text within longer strings, and to extract content or replace it with other text. For your project you would have to learn how to do regular expressions as well. From memory, both Java and Python use perl syntax regular expressions (considered the most powerful and flexible type), in a similar way, so they are about equal there.