Windows 7 RC

[aidanjt]

@aidanjt: Shift + Right Click is a perfectly sensible shortcut.

Or, better yet, have minimise in the right-click context menu by default, as is expected context menu behaviour. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and whatnot.

[dangel]

Worthy of note - most users do not (ever) use keyboard shortcuts! If I had a quid for every time I saw someone laboriously click:

Start->Computer

or Worse:

Start->Programs->Explorer (or whatever it was on XP)

[dangel]

Or, better yet, have minimise in the right-click context menu by default, as is expected context menu behaviour. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and whatnot.

I suspect, after much user-study with the new taskbar they figured it was such a big departure from the windows norm (hey, the taskbar has been the same for how long exactly?) that it worked for 9/10 people. MS have stacks of user metrics and tons of money to spend on focus groups/studies - I don't think someone merely went "meh, this'll nark off aidanjt" one day

Or maybe they did? Is there something you're not telling us?


This isn't so different from the new office - massive departure from the 'norm' - lots of complaints by a vocal few etc etc. 2007 I bloody love though - because it solves a heck of a lot of the problems with a wordprocessor with 1500-shiny-things-you-can-do-but-can't-ever-goddamn-find-in-2003.

[Agent]

My bad, you don't need to press and hold. Simple just tap them in order. What? You can't tap Alt > Space > N quickly? Anyone comfortable with a computer should be able to find those keys in the dark!

Your the only person to complain about this. Most people I know complain about the lack of ability to re-arrange taskbar (double height) items vertically - and thats fair point, considering the new super taskbar is pretty good.

I've already mentioned the high stacking. And I'm clearly not the only one complaining about this - there are people in this thread who have agreed? Not to mention I've seen it on other places around the web.
Just because you don't mind it doesn't mean my point is invalid.

Singh, 3 buttons to to minimise a window seems over the top for me. More so when the previous method worked fine. I've sent comments to Microsoft as Dangel had suggested and hopefully they'll look into it a little bit.

[aidanjt]

I suspect, after much user-study with the new taskbar they figured it was such a big departure from the windows norm (hey, the taskbar has been the same for how long exactly?) that it worked for 9/10 people. MS have stacks of user metrics and tons of money to spend on focus groups/studies - I don't think someone merely went "meh, this'll nark off aidanjt" one day

I don't mind cosmetic changes as much, I eventually acclimatise to them. But minimise by taskbar is just one of those things I do so frequently that I couldn't put up with being without it. IMHO, if they wanted to remove minimise from a simple click of the taskbar, they should have at least kept it in the context menu. Killing both at the same time and pushing in modifiers to access it isn't a great idea from a usability point.

Or maybe they did? Is there something you're not telling us?

Not that I'm aware of.

This isn't so different from the new office - massive departure from the 'norm' - lots of complaints by a vocal few etc etc. 2007 I bloody love though - because it solves a heck of a lot of the problems with a wordprocessor with 1500-shiny-things-you-can-do-but-can't-ever-goddamn-find-in-2003.

I agree. And 2007 made some nice changes. I fiddled with it for a few weeks, but I'm not a Microsoft Office user so I didn't keep it around.

[dangel]

I don't mind cosmetic changes as much, I eventually acclimatise to them. But minimise by taskbar is just one of those things I do so frequently that I couldn't put up with being without it. IMHO, if they wanted to remove minimise from a simple click of the taskbar, they should have at least kept it in the context menu. Killing both at the same time and pushing in modifiers to access it isn't a great idea from a usability point.

Well, to be fair, you can still click the taskbar button to minimise (if it's a single app and not a group) so that part hasn't changed - personally i've never been a big user of context menu clicks on the taskbar (aside from invoking task manager I guess) so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah, each to their own

I've sent comments to Microsoft as Dangel had suggested and hopefully they'll look into it a little bit.

The funny thing is, we devs actually do want to hear from users - i'm always coming across someone saying during a demo they wished something did blah and they never thought of actively seeking you out and telling you that. I suspect Windows is largely democratic - the more people ask for something etc.

[aidanjt]

Well, to be fair, you can still click the taskbar button to minimise (if it's a single app and not a group) so that part hasn't changed - personally i've never been a big user of context menu clicks on the taskbar (aside from invoking task manager I guess) so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah, each to their own

Yeah, that's true. Unfortunately I have a tendency to have multiple Windows of the same app open at the same time, putty, explorer, few firefox windows, etc. So that's mostly a moot point for me, personally. :/

On the other hand, I *do* like how the windows are now grouped in Win7. I think this may even start killing off MDI-type UIs from apps. I just wish it was less laborious to minimise them.

[Agent]

The funny thing is, we devs actually do want to hear from users - i'm always coming across someone saying during a demo they wished something did blah and they never thought of actively seeking you out and telling you that. I suspect Windows is largely democratic - the more people ask for something etc.

Yep, I'm often involved in beta projects so I really appreciate this. Some fairly high profile and paid for - it's nice to see suggestions get into the final product
I was planning on forwarding feedback to MS before you said, honestly

[TheAnimus]

you do get a strange feeling when something you've submitted makes it out in to a product like this.

most of the stuff i design or develop gets used by a few hundred people tops (one noteable exception has almost 5,000 right now). Seeing a change in something that is used by millions is quite fun in a way.

even thou in this my only comment was on touch screen calibration, which isn't really used much! (and also i'm fairly certain it was an oversite in previous builds......)

[dangel]

Yeah, that's true. Unfortunately I have a tendency to have multiple Windows of the same app open at the same time, putty, explorer, few firefox windows, etc. So that's mostly a moot point for me, personally. :/

On the other hand, I *do* like how the windows are now grouped in Win7. I think this may even start killing off MDI-type UIs from apps. I just wish it was less laborious to minimise them.

Well yes and no - notice internet explorer's tabs are represented as different windows in the group. That's actually nice and I suspect FF, opera etc to follow suit. I just hope they don't do that with visual studio

Yep, I'm often involved in beta projects so I really appreciate this. Some fairly high profile and paid for - it's nice to see suggestions get into the final product
I was planning on forwarding feedback to MS before you said, honestly

I believe you Nah, seriously it's cool that people DO take the time - it does make a difference. I've had some influence over Vista by suggesting changes froma devs perspective (although i'm guessing a lot of other people made the same request). People are far too 'meh' thesedays - nobody wants to get involved in changing things (be it an OS or a prime minister) which does nark me off somewhat.. especially as those same people will take the time to whinge about how it's 'so horrible' when they did nothing in the first place. etc. etc. rant blah blah

[Singh400]

I've sent comments to Microsoft as Dangel had suggested and hopefully they'll look into it a little bit.

Pretty sure it is a little too late now especially with it being at RTM escrow stage (or near enough). But keep sending feedback regardless.

God knows how much Microsoft spend on customer feedback surveys. Pretty sure they did a massive research project into the new supertaskbar.

[aidanjt]

Well yes and no - notice internet explorer's tabs are represented as different windows in the group. That's actually nice and I suspect FF, opera etc to follow suit. I just hope they don't do that with visual studio

I wouldn't consider tabbed browsers a typical MDI app though. But otherwise, yes. I like the way that's done. FF and Opera should be able to implement it through Win32 calls, touch wood.

[Stanman]

Is any one using Kaspersky unde W7 and is it free
http://www.kaspersky.com/windows7

[amjedm]

Is any one using Kaspersky unde W7 and is it free
http://www.kaspersky.com/windows7

I'm using a 30 day trial of the Internet Suite under Windows 7. I wanted to 'test' it worked before I punched in a serial (one of the cheaper places is Scan when on Today Only - around £12 for 3 licenses).

The link you posted above is for Antivirus only.

[dangel]

I wouldn't consider tabbed browsers a typical MDI app though.

Really? Each page a document.. multiple documents?

[pollaxe]

Is any one using Kaspersky unde W7 and is it free
http://www.kaspersky.com/windows7

I thought this technical preview had expired though - that's to say no free keys to activate it - that was my impression last time I checked, though I could be wrong.

Edit: I'm running a licensed KIS 2009 on my one Windows 7 RC machine and so far so good, no BSODs or network slowdowns which some people were having earlier on (mind you, with the speed of my 'net connection I'd probably not notice anyway. Bah.)