Windows 11 Revealed

[AGTDenton]

I hope my Dell E5470 supports it! Its a 2016 Skylake laptop.

Hopefully I don't ruin your day but you've just missed out, it has 1.2:

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/latitu...nual_en-us.pdf (page 39)

[kalniel]

I hope they'll consider backtracking that requirement - if that means I have to sign in with a password then I'm fine with that - but as far as I can tell virtually no consumer desktop motherboards support TPM2.0 without purchasing an add on chip, which have predictably all gone out of stock.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Hopefully I don't ruin your day but you've just missed out, it has 1.2:

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/latitu...nual_en-us.pdf (page 39)

I checked and apparently there is a TPM2.0 firmware upgrade available for it! I might have gotten lucky as it is a business laptop.

That's just greedy

I won the CPU and motherboard on here nearly a decade ago!

I hope they'll consider backtracking that requirement - if that means I have to sign in with a password then I'm fine with that - but as far as I can tell virtually no consumer desktop motherboards support TPM2.0 without purchasing an add on chip, which have predictably all gone out of stock.

How does it work for AMD platforms?? I know AMD has some ARM based secure processor built-in AFAIK.

[AGTDenton]

I checked and apparently there is a TPM2.0 firmware upgrade available for it! I might have gotten lucky as it is a business laptop.

Fingers X - and I think you're right.
We're told to RTFM all the time and they don't update it! (said in the style of a technical Meldrew)


Just discovered that if I could find this in stock somewhere:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus...s-motherboards

I might be able to get a newer than Anniversary update (1607) onto my old motherboard.
Sadly I'm looking completely out of luck unless one pops up on eBay one day

[Jonj1611]

Well there goes my dual booting, even if I wanted to, don't think a mac even has a TPM chip lol

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Fingers X - and I think you're right.
We're told to RTFM all the time and they don't update it! (said in the style of a technical Meldrew)


Just discovered that if I could find this in stock somewhere:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus...s-motherboards

I might be able to get a newer than Anniversary update (1607) onto my old motherboard.
Sadly I'm looking completely out of luck unless one pops up on eBay one day

Will that work with my Asus B450I motherboard??

[AGTDenton]

I get the feeling TPM headers were included on old Motherboards when it was still totally optional and relatively new. My board is a 2008 x58 model. So it looks like it never came with a chip onboard. Checking the manual for mine mentions that it was only required for BitLocker on Vista.
I have found a post where someone has said the brand of the TPM module doesn't matter too much, for the sake of £10 I've grabbed an Acer TPM 1.2 module off ebay. It will be interesting if it works, the only problem I can see is that the pins are right angled, and I'm not sure I'll be able to fit the module whilst in the chassis, considering the Motherboard is EATX.


From what I can tell your motherboard was made circa 2018 and I think when 2.0 was mandatory from Microsoft in 2016 you will have a chip on the board itself.
Again the manual is lacking in detail of this on ASUS' website. I'd personally expect yours to be ok. My laptop of 2018 has passed the checks on the link above.

EDIT correction, you have fTPM, which is firmware based. So you're definitely alright.
To get it working on your Motherboard, you will need to disable Legacy & CSM modes, this will probably include Mixed modes as well where both UEFI & Legacy are enabled, if that is still a thing.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I get the feeling TPM headers were included on old Motherboards when it was still totally optional and relatively new. My board is a 2008 x58 model. So it looks like it never came with a chip onboard. Checking the manual for mine mentions that it was only required for BitLocker on Vista.
I have found a post where someone has said the brand of the TPM module doesn't matter too much, for the sake of £10 I've grabbed an Acer TPM 1.2 module off ebay. It will be interesting if it works, the only problem I can see is that the pins are right angled, and I'm not sure I'll be able to fit the module whilst in the chassis, considering the Motherboard is EATX.


From what I can tell your motherboard was made circa 2018 and I think when 2.0 was mandatory from Microsoft in 2016 you will have a chip on the board itself.
Again the manual is lacking in detail of this on ASUS' website. I'd personally expect yours to be ok. My laptop of 2018 has passed the checks on the link above.

EDIT correction, you have fTPM, which is firmware based. So you're definitely alright.
To get it working on your Motherboard, you will need to disable Legacy & CSM modes, this will probably include Mixed modes as well where both UEFI & Legacy are enabled, if that is still a thing.

My mate told me and I saw your post and I can confirm my motherboard has it.AMD confirmed it:
https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/1...091216384?s=20

The big issue with this though,is any reason which can cause your BIOS to be reset,ie,tweaking RAM,updating the BIOS,etc can cause you to fall foul of TPM. So its going to be a PITA.

However,it appears you can disable Bitlocker on Win11 PRO. Directstorage will need Win11:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/windows-11/directstorage-api

Edit!!

Also secure boot is required - how will that affect dual booting systems?

Second Edit!!

People will need to remember the keys - how is that going to work for most people??

[Corky34]

I can't see the TPM 2.0 requirement sticking around in the release version, I'm hoping it's just a dev build requirement thing so it can be tested or developed for, i guess we'll have to wait and see and i hope I'm not wrong.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Comedy gold:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...tel-processors

Skylake is not supported. Its only Intel 8000 CPUs onwards!

So my Intel business laptop which has a TPM2.0 compatible module built-in,with 16GB of DDR4,a dual core Skylake Core i5 can't run Windows 11??

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Jonj1611]

AMD aren't fairing well either

AMD AMD 3015e
AMD AMD 3020e
AMD Athlon™ Gold 3150C
AMD Athlon™ Gold 3150U
AMD Athlon™ Silver 3050C
AMD Athlon™ Silver 3050e
AMD Athlon™ Silver 3050U
AMD Athlon™ 3000G
AMD Athlon™ 300GE
AMD Athlon™ 300U
AMD Athlon™ 320GE
AMD Athlon™ Gold 3150G
AMD Athlon™ Gold 3150GE
AMD Athlon™ Silver 3050GE
AMD EPYC™ 7232P
AMD EPYC™ 7252
AMD EPYC™ 7262
AMD EPYC™ 7272
AMD EPYC™ 7282
AMD EPYC™ 7302
AMD EPYC™ 7302P
AMD EPYC™ 7352
AMD EPYC™ 7402
AMD EPYC™ 7402P
AMD EPYC™ 7452
AMD EPYC™ 7502
AMD EPYC™ 7502P
AMD EPYC™ 7532
AMD EPYC™ 7542
AMD EPYC™ 7552
AMD EPYC™ 7642
AMD EPYC™ 7662
AMD EPYC™ 7702
AMD EPYC™ 7702P
AMD EPYC™ 7742
AMD EPYC™ 7F32
AMD EPYC™ 7F52
AMD EPYC™ 7F72
AMD EPYC™ 7H12
AMD EPYC™ 72F3
AMD EPYC™ 7313
AMD EPYC™ 7313P
AMD EPYC™ 7343
AMD EPYC™ 73F3
AMD EPYC™ 7413
AMD EPYC™ 7443
AMD EPYC™ 7443P
AMD EPYC™ 7453
AMD EPYC™ 74F3
AMD EPYC™ 7513
AMD EPYC™ 7543
AMD EPYC™ 7543P
AMD EPYC™ 75F3
AMD EPYC™ 7643
AMD EPYC™ 7663
AMD EPYC™ 7713
AMD EPYC™ 7713P
AMD EPYC™ 7763
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3250C
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3250U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200G with Radeon™ Vega 8 Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200GE
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3200U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3350U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 2300X
AMD Ryzen™ 3 5300U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3100
AMD Ryzen™ 3 3300U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 4300G
AMD Ryzen™ 3 4300GE
AMD Ryzen™ 3 4300U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 5400U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 3200G
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 3200GE
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 3300U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 4350G
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 4350GE
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 4450U
AMD Ryzen™ 3 PRO 5450U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G with Radeon™ RX Vega 11 Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400GE
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3450U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3500C
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3500U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3550H
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3580U Microsoft Surface® Edition
AMD Ryzen™ 5 2500X
AMD Ryzen™ 5 2600
AMD Ryzen™ 5 2600E
AMD Ryzen™ 5 2600X
AMD Ryzen™ 5 5500U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3500 Processor
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X
AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600XT
AMD Ryzen™ 5 4600G
AMD Ryzen™ 5 4500U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 4600GE
AMD Ryzen™ 5 4600H
AMD Ryzen™ 5 4600U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 5600H
AMD Ryzen™ 5 5600HS
AMD Ryzen™ 5 5600U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 5600X
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 3400G
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 3400GE
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 3500U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 2600
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 3600
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4650G
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4650GE
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 4650U
AMD Ryzen™ 5 PRO 5650U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3700C
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3700U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3750H
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3780U Microsoft Surface® Edition
AMD Ryzen™ 7 2700
AMD Ryzen™ 7 2700E Processor
AMD Ryzen™ 7 2700X
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5700U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3700X
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3800X
AMD Ryzen™ 7 3800XT
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4700G
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4700GE
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4700U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4800H
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4800HS
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4800U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800HS
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800
AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 3700U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 2700
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 2700X
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 4750G
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 4750GE
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 4750U
AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 5850U
AMD Ryzen™ 9 3900 Processor
AMD Ryzen™ 9 3900X
AMD Ryzen™ 9 3900XT
AMD Ryzen™ 9 3950X
AMD Ryzen™ 9 4900H
AMD Ryzen™ 9 4900HS
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900HS
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900HX
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5980HS
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5980HX
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900X
AMD Ryzen™ 9 5950X
AMD Ryzen™ 9 PRO 3900
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2920X
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2950X
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2970WX
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2990WX
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 3960X
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 3970X
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 3990X
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ PRO 3945WX
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ PRO 3955WX
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ PRO 3975WX
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ PRO 3995WX

[AGTDenton]

A few further highlights mentioned from the Developers Live stream, available on YT:



up to 15:20 - Introduction

15:20 - New Microsoft Store
> 16:12 - Ability to install a Windows App direct from the supplier website via the browser
> 16:40 - Android Apps to be installed on Windows, including Amazon App Store integration
> 17:15 - Existing Apps can be ported over to the new store
> 18:02 - PWA Builder 3


18:42 - Monetisation of Apps
> 19:14 Move from existing 70/30 split to 88/12 split
> 19:25 Apps can bring their own 3rd party commerce platform and not pay a fee

20:25 - Big Apps coming to the store
> 21:00 More Microsoft Apps coming to the store

21:26 - How is Android on Windows Possible
> 22:30 - Intel Bridge technologies

23:06 Windows for Web Developers
> 24:30 Accessing a Linux Kernal from Powershell (WSL)

28:31 Microsoft Edge & Standards Based Web Applications
> 29:15 PWA example
> 33:20 PWA Builder
> 35:15 Microsoft Edge WebView2

36:08 Windows App SDK
> 37:16 Windows App SDK Example
> 40:40 SDK Availability (GitHub)
> 41:00 App Engagement

44:42 - Native ARM 64 Apps

45:33 - A.I. in Windows 11

46:26 - Fluent Design System - UI
> 47:36 - Rounded Geometry
> 51:53 - Snap Windows
> 52:45 - Are Microsoft 1st party apps adapting to the new design guidlines

- https://aka.ms/windows11design

53:50 - Supporting Older Versions of Windows (AKA Windows 10)

55:05 - Gaming
> 56:40 - Gaming Development Toolkit (GDK) Free of Charge
> 56:56 - Gaming Performance - Direct Storage
> 58:12 - 3D Spacial Audio (ATMOS, DTSX...)
> 58:54 - Graphics space (DX12, Agility SDK...)
> 59:40 - AMD Fidelity super resolution available in SDK
> 1:00:10 - Auto HDR
> 1:00:50 - ID@Xbox
> 1:02:26 - Game Examples coming to PC Soon
> 1:05:10 - Hardware requirements of Direct Storage

1:06:00 - Conclusion
- https://aka.ms/windowsdev

Insider Preview available next week

Really Sorry if these times become meaningless should they edit/delete the video, but hopefully it still helps to highlight some features and abilities. And apologies if the times are a little off, it's late is my excuse

[AGTDenton]

My mate told me and I saw your post and I can confirm my motherboard has it.AMD confirmed it:
https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/1...091216384?s=20

The big issue with this though,is any reason which can cause your BIOS to be reset,ie,tweaking RAM,updating the BIOS,etc can cause you to fall foul of TPM. So its going to be a PITA.

However,it appears you can disable Bitlocker on Win11 PRO. Directstorage will need Win11:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/windows-11/directstorage-api

Edit!!

Also secure boot is required - how will that affect dual booting systems?

Second Edit!!

People will need to remember the keys - how is that going to work for most people??

Some very good points, I spotted this quote on the Twitter link:

Most mobos offer fTPM 1.2 at a minimum, which will also work w/ future builds of Win11 according to MS tech docs.

That could be a good sign and allow us to disengage panic mode!

EDIT: Further link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ty/windows-11/ - I think we could be saved!!! The soft floor indicates it's not advised for the CPUs that aren't listed above (Intel - AMD) but wouldn't block it.

Hardware Requirements

There are new minimum hardware requirements for Windows 11. In order to run Windows 11, devices must meet the following specifications. Devices that do not meet the hard floor cannot be upgraded to Windows 11, and devices that meet the soft floor will receive a notification that upgrade is not advised.

Hard Floor:

CPU: Core >= 2 and Speed >= 1 GHz
System Memory: TotalPhysicalRam >= 4 GB
Storage: 64 GB
Security: TPM Version >= 1.2 and SecureBootCapable = True
Smode: Smode is false, or Smode is true and C_ossku in (0x65, 0x64, 0x63, 0x6D, 0x6F, 0x73, 0x74, 0x71)

Soft Floor:

Security: TPMVersion >= 2.0
CPU Generation

Hard Floor & Soft Floor are Terminologies I've not come across before.


So my old Mobo could work on 11 if the TPM module I just bought fits & works

[spacein_vader]

What are the supposed advantages that TPM 2 enables that would make it worthwhile adding to the requirement list?

[rich_27]

So much for "last ever version".

Do we know/does anyone have theories on why Microsoft might have abandoned that? I remember being told that Windows 10 was sticking around for good and Microsoft were 100% committed to the continuous update OSaaS model they had shifted to. Do we reckon its a profitability thing, or have they realised that a lot of the design choices they've made with Win10 have made it a complete pain to set Windows up to your liking if you don't want the out of the box configuration (for instance, disabling Cortana is the biggest hassle, or stopping the start menu automatically opening Edge and searching on Bing seems to not respect group policy or registry settings).

Sorry, maybe my dislike of certain aspects of Win10 got away from me there

[DanceswithUnix]

AMD aren't fairing well either

No FX-8350? I think I can live with that

An odd list of AMD parts though. The 2600 is supported, but the 1600F isn't. The 3200G is supported, but my daughter's 2200G isn't.

I will look forward to a flood of cheap Chinese TPM modules turning up on Amazon real soon.

Do we know/does anyone have theories on why Microsoft might have abandoned that?

I suspect it isn't just one thing. Dropping 32 bit hardware support is at this point I think a good thing. Enforcing a TPM so if we buy games from the Microsoft Store with so much DRM that I can't possibly play them under Linux is a bad thing. We shall see if the predictions that lead to the creation of SteamOS are finally coming true.