Anyone concerned about DRM in Windows Vista?

[mr-nick]

of for christs sake people, this is the league of un-informed voters here, anyone actually on the beta program here? Anyone read the technical announcements?

There is a new DRM engine, which is a good thing for people like me, i don't want people to pirate the programs i've written, anything that helps in that manner is good. People complain about TCPA, the same people who complain about viruses.

Stop making a bunch of Daily Mail style predictions on something u've no clue about.

I'd disagree with that. There are posts here from people who understand what's happening, maybe they're not involved in the beta but the information is out there as to what is planned.

[Spud1]

All fair and true points, but the fact of the matter doesnt change - no matter what we 'want' to happen, if the people selling the music want to sell it in a certain way then thats whats going to happen. Sure you can complain all you like but there is still nothing wrong with them doing it. And just because 99% of ppl don't bother to read the t's+c's doesn't make them worthless, they still apply if you read them or not....

[dangel]

All fair and true points, but the fact of the matter doesnt change - no matter what we 'want' to happen, if the people selling the music want to sell it in a certain way then thats whats going to happen. Sure you can complain all you like but there is still nothing wrong with them doing it. And just because 99% of ppl don't bother to read the t's+c's doesn't make them worthless, they still apply if you read them or not....

Ah but your supposing a democracy exists to protect corporations and not the individual - which is _quite wrong_ IMHO. You could say that Microsoft's past business practices fell within their own T&Cs, but were they right too?

Personally, I fell there is something morally wrong in the way things are going atm - whether you think this has any significance and/or act on it is down to you. Sit back an accept it and yes, they'll do what they please.

[directhex]

you could vote with your wallet.

i don't buy music with DRM on it, and tend to mail the store/record label if there's a particular not-cd i won't buy

[mr-nick]

Good points dangel

I don't think anyone here objects to paying for content (whether it's music or films or software) but it's limited use and portability after purchase is going to anger end-users and eventually throttle the market.

Mind you, the fact that people are willing to pay a premium price for lossy music files when they could have a physical disc for the same price is beyond my understanding in the first place

[dangel]

Exactly.

[nez]

This is going a little off topic and not really relating to vista much, but anyways:

The music industy is clutching at straws, they is less and less good quality music being released, i find myself listening to more and more older stuff (the who, steely dan, pink floyd) because most songs u hear on the radio are absolute rubbish. And these rubbish cds cost upwards of £15 for a CD with usually 2 or 3 good tracks on. Then the industy wonders why people pirate music, it costs to much for crap, and they cant say that its for all music... Take the live8 gig, the who and pink floyd played there and the week afterwards they were selling 10's of thousands of cds.

I admit i do download music but i genuinely buy any albums i like that i have downloaded, so the music industy is not loosing any money from the albums i download, if i like them i buy them and if i dont its very unlikely that i would have bought it anyway. Its just like listening to the album on the radio, then buying it if u like it.

Bottom line: I'm a skint student, who cant afford much, i wouldnt have bought it anyways so its not a loss anyone.
nez

[Jonny M]

The music industy is clutching at straws, there is less and less good quality music being released

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600242-8085431

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600242-8085431

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600242-8085431

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600242-8085431

etc.

There is no shortage of good music, you just have to ignore Radio 1 to find most of it. I find CD prices to be perfectly acceptable, and never have problems ripping any CDs I own if I want to. The "all music these days is crap anyway so I won't pay for any of it" argument doesn't apply. If you like it, buy it, or at least don't pirate it.

[Fatman]

The bit I have a problem with is the rumoured display device requirements (HDMI?). Apparently if your monitor isn't 'compliant' it won't display hi-def content!

[mr-nick]

The bit I have a problem with is the rumoured display device requirements (HDMI?). Apparently if your monitor isn't 'compliant' it won't display hi-def content!

Yep, your monitor will need to be HDCP compliant which can be over a DVI or HDMI connection.

So not only do the studios want you to buy expensive new HD copies of your current DVD collection, they also *need* you to buy a new DRM compliant screen to watch it on.

[dangel]

I don't really believe that will happen - it's not practical and nobody truely believes it is, least of all MS. It's one thing to talk about embedded set-top systems - 360 included - but another for the desktop where most of us don't really watch films anyway. People were just as worried when hard drive manu's talked about DRM at the storage level and that's never going to happen as it's not marketable.
It's one thing to screw down Sky-style distribution..

[mr-nick]

I don't really believe that will happen - it's not practical and nobody truely believes it is, least of all MS. It's one thing to talk about embedded set-top systems - 360 included - but another for the desktop where most of us don't really watch films anyway. People were just as worried when hard drive manu's talked about DRM at the storage level and that's never going to happen as it's not marketable.
It's one thing to screw down Sky-style distribution..

As a current Media Center user, my feeling is this will certainly happen in part because US FTA HDTV broadcasts will require it as will Blu-Ray / HD-DVD when it appears. You won't require it to run a standard Vista machine but if you want these features then that will be the baseline (whether it's practical or not means nothing; you have a choice).

Regarding hard drive DRM, I'd question if we'll see the extremes of TCPA enforced in one go although Vista will introduce certain elements.

[Wiczy]

Sorry bit it's this kind of attitude that makes me a bit

DRM doesn't add value to the consumer in any way, shape or form. Thats just FUD you're being fed by the corporations. Why on earth would anyway want to buy any media which is restricted to the point where it won't play back in all the different devices/formats you may use in everyday life?

And moving to another OS won't save you, if you only have the option of downloading in one format that your alternative OS doesn't support/bypass. The point of DRM is to say "we don't trust you to responsibly use the music we've licenced you, so we'll punish you in case you were thinking of doing something we don't like". It's bad enough we live in a country where transfering media from one format to another is illegal (read: ripping to MP3 is not legal here in the UK at all) even for personal use.

Sorry, this isn't meant as a personal slant against you, i'm merely pointing out the fact that the corporations aren't interested in giving you a fair deal, rather they're working hard and removing the level of freedom you currently have (legal or not).

I agree dangel....unfortunately the majority of people are just as naive and will happily applaud as their rights are surgically removed, one after another

Of course the biggest irony is that DRM will only serve to annoy and restrict the legitimate users, because pirates will always be pirates and nothing is going to change that im afraid

[dangel]

As a current Media Center user, my feeling is this will certainly happen in part because US FTA HDTV broadcasts will require it as will Blu-Ray / HD-DVD when it appears. You won't require it to run a standard Vista machine but if you want these features then that will be the baseline (whether it's practical or not means nothing; you have a choice).

Regarding hard drive DRM, I'd question if we'll see the extremes of TCPA enforced in one go although Vista will introduce certain elements.

...but it's certainly going to restrict the market for such products - people who've bought TV's in the past 5 years won't all rush out a get a new one just because of DRM. The life-cycle of displays for the majority of users is much longer than most consumer electronics. In fact, I'd be surprised if they manage to bury plain old DVD as the quality won't have the leap of VHS->DVD (which was massive). Example - DVD-Audio which was supposed to replace CD Audio wasn't it?

I'll know if they've succeeded with next gen formats if my parents ever turn to me and ask me to recommend a setup for their front room. As is, they're still watching in 4:3 and nicam!

[mr-nick]

@ dangel - parents eh?!

I completely agree. Not only will there be two HD video formats to chose from but the 1st/2nd generation hardware will be expensive as will the software. With most people comfortable using DVD it's going to be a bitch to sell. The CD v DVD Audio comparison is a good one.. although the ham-fisted marketing job the 'industry' has done hasn't helped.

But regardless of all these issues, I'm convinced it will happen and Vista MCE will have to support at least some of these content protection systems.

BTW, I'd say there is a significant progression from DVD to HD (from some of the WMV-HD clips I've seen) and IIRC WMV-HD is the lowest quality out of all the forthcoming formats.

[dangel]

BTW, I'd say there is a significant progression from DVD to HD (from some of the WMV-HD clips I've seen) and IIRC WMV-HD is the
lowest quality out of all the forthcoming formats.

Not _as_ significant as VHS to DVD where the picture quality was all blurry and the sound was ruddy awful Plus, of course, to see any benefit they're going to have to get you not only to buy another player but another display too - not cheap. Tough sell? Hell yeah!