Weight lifting

[j1979]

Sorry to repeat myself, but that's just utterly wrong on so many levels. The human body gladly gains muscle while shedding fat if it's being worked. Muscles burn energy just existing, so gaining muscle through strength training is a superb way of losing fat.

the body will search for energy in the form of glycogen / blood glucose failing that it will use protean for energy. if no protean is available it will search for and burn fat. the muscles being worked can not gain in size during this phase (unless there is some fat gain), as there is no protean available to help repair the muscle to the larger size, it has all been used for energy use. And yes you can take massive amounts of protean after the workout, but the amino acids will also create blood sugar, which will be later converted in into fat if not used. Any excess amino acids from the protean eaten are converted and stored as fat.

what you say is possible, but only through micro phases. of luck more than judgement.

[scaryjim]

Swimming infact is useless for weight loss

Any additional cardiovascular exercise will burn calories and help in weight loss. Other exercises may do the job faster than swimming, but swimming is a damn site better than nothing...

[j1979]

Any additional cardiovascular exercise will burn calories and help in weight loss. Other exercises may do the job faster than swimming, but swimming is a damn site better than nothing...

ture, ive never seen an obese mackerel.

[Barakka]

To the OP

Adding some weights into your exercise routine will certainly help towards the goals you have listed.

If you're starting out with weights it's best to find a routine you can follow that's designed for beginners. Also remember weights does not have to mean lifting dumbells and barbells, using your own body weight can form a solid part of the workout (e.g. chin-ups, dips etc) or combined with a gym/ab ball can have the added bonus of also engaging your core muscles. A good place i've found to look is the annual special magazine of the Mens Fitness/health magazines which come out towards the end of the year - kind of the "Best of" routines from the year just gone - could be worth looking out for.

A key thing which has sort of been mentioned here is timing, lifting weights to stengthen muscles is effectively damaging the muscles to make them repair and grow back stronger. Because of this you need to make sure you allow them the time to recover, the usual way of doing this is to exercise 2 muscle groups per session every other day, e.g.
Mon - Back/Biceps
Tue - CV Work
Wed - Chest/Triceps
Thur - CV Work
Fri - Legs/Shoulders

This is not exclusive there are many combinations which will (potentially) give different results, and you can do CV on all days, just don't do weights on the CV days

As for losing body fat, yes weights will help, doing exercises with weights increases your metabolism and keeps it elevated for longer than doing CV work, this will make your body burn more calories for a longer period. Although I would recommend you get some digital scales with Body Fat measurement as this will give you a measurement of how much fat is in your body rather tham just a weight figure. These scales can be picked up for around £10 a set now and will allow you to see more of what effect your actually having - e.g. increasing weight but not increasing body fat is a very good thing as it means you've added lean muscle mass.

You may find once you get used to doing weights and start increasing the weight you need to alter your diet a little. For example I exercise in the mornings and on the days I do weights (Mon/Wed/Fri) I have a protein loaded smoothie within 30 mins of exercising, and then a high protein lunch, with a smaller meal for evening meal.

There's a lot of information out there and everyone has an opinion, lots of which contradict each other even with scientific backing, give it a try, if it works for you great

[Rave]

And i stand by what i said, it is impossible to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. i suppose your gonna tell me next it's possible to spot burn fat . and don't even think of calling me a fool again

I sincerely apologise, booze and fatigue talking there. I know you're not a fool, however you are demonstrably wrong on this subject.

links please!

My pleasure. I don't actually agree with every word of this but it's broadly right:

http://stronglifts.com/fat-loss-101-...at-loss-diets/

This geezer says he went from 15 stone to 11 in a year (and why would he lie?). He's also clearly gained a hell of a lot of muscle (I'm 13 stone and still quite a way from being able to squat that much). This chap's lost a stone while gaining muscle. This chap lost 10lb.

the body will search for energy in the form of glycogen / blood glucose failing that it will use protean for energy. if no protean is available it will search for and burn fat.

Simple common sense should surely tell you that this is nonsense? Have a look at some of these pics and then explain to me how he got such a lot of muscle and so little fat? Because if your statement that the body burns muscle before it burns fat is actually true, then surely his body would have eaten all his muscle while he was trying to cut? It clearly didn't, because your statement is simply untrue. Have a read down this page:

http://health.msn.com/fitness/articl...ntid=100138677

Then have a look here: http://www.leangains.com/ - a whole website devoted to gaining muscle without gaining any fat. Which if you look at the geezer, clearly can work, although I'm not going to personally recommend his approach, I just provide it as an example.

what you say is possible, but only through micro phases. of luck more than judgement.

Oh right, so the people in the stories I posted to only succeeded through luck did they? I put on over a stone of muscle without gaining any fat by luck did I? O.K. then.

[TheAnimus]

Haven't posted on Hexus for a long while, not sure why. Started lurking again last month. This tickled me:



5lbs muscle = 5lbs fat.

Your quite dense aren't you

[j1979]

I sincerely apologise, booze and fatigue talking there. I know you're not a fool, however you are demonstrably wrong on this subject.



My pleasure. I don't actually agree with every word of this but it's broadly right:

http://stronglifts.com/fat-loss-101-...at-loss-diets/

This geezer says he went from 15 stone to 11 in a year (and why would he lie?). He's also clearly gained a hell of a lot of muscle (I'm 13 stone and still quite a way from being able to squat that much). This chap's lost a stone while gaining muscle. This chap lost 10lb.



Simple common sense should surely tell you that this is nonsense? Have a look at some of these pics and then explain to me how he got such a lot of muscle and so little fat? Because if your statement that the body burns muscle before it burns fat is actually true, then surely his body would have eaten all his muscle while he was trying to cut? It clearly didn't, because your statement is simply untrue. Have a read down this page:

http://health.msn.com/fitness/articl...ntid=100138677

Then have a look here: http://www.leangains.com/ - a whole website devoted to gaining muscle without gaining any fat. Which if you look at the geezer, clearly can work, although I'm not going to personally recommend his approach, I just provide it as an example.



Oh right, so the people in the stories I posted to only succeeded through luck did they? I put on over a stone of muscle without gaining any fat by luck did I? O.K. then.

you totally miss the point.

gaining muscle without gaining any fat. is in theory scientifically possible.. (in theory only).
in reality, with hard work and extream diet, you can gain muscle with minimal fat gains but
gaining muscle and losing fat simultaneously is impossible.

you can have a weight training session and lose fat

or you can have a weight training session and gain muscle with minimal fat gains.

but it is impossible for both to happen at the same time.

The op's main aim is to lose fat, and im pointing out cario would be best for someone who wants to lower body fat. Weights will work but don't expect to change the body from fat to muscle.

And you have posted a person gaining lean muscle. So?? yes this is possible as part of a training regime.. But not in 1 session, but like i said you can either gain muscle or lose fat in 1 session depending on factors, but you can't do both. And if the OP want to lose fat there are better ways.

[chuckskull]

Another vote for stronglifts as rave linked. Good site, lot of information on there.

http://stronglifts.com/files/stronglifts-5x5.pdf Is often recommended on here, it's a good plan, and can be done at home with basic gear, easily <£100 to get started. Between mates, I got enough gear out of a couple of pints, a curry and a quick raid of my dad's shed, YMMV of course.

[Lucio]

Thanks for the tips, but I definately don't want to stay the same weight, I'm still over 19 stone and want to get down to a healthier size.

I'll maybe see if I can convince myself jogging works

[TheAnimus]

if you like jogging it will help.

(I don't.)

A worrying number of my older friends do it religiously three times a week. Up just before dawn, someone I used to work with came into central early, so he could jog down the thames and avoid the rush commute, he really enjoyed it, the health benefits were almost secondary.

[j1979]

Thanks for the tips, but I definately don't want to stay the same weight, I'm still over 19 stone and want to get down to a healthier size.

I'll maybe see if I can convince myself jogging works

my friend is/was a similar size to yourself, he lost a stone a month by walking to work (6 mile round trip), 3 times a week + diet control. jogging is good, but it can put stain on the joints. swimming like has already been mentioned is very good. although if you don't fancy getting semi naked it rules that out.

Personally, i would try badminton. It is one of the best all round for losing weight quickly.

[TooNice]

I am inclined to agree that gaining muscle and cutting fat is not done simultanuously (will get to it later). However, weight lifting, as with any exercise, will help create a calorie deficit so long as it increases your calorie expenditure beyond that of your calorie intake.

As to weather it is more efficient than cardio, probably not in the short term. Doesn't hurt to do a both though.


Reason gaining muscle with no fat is theoretically possible though unlikely: Lets say that right now, 2500 calories is -exactly- what you need on your current level of activity. Eat 500 calories of protein and nothing more, you'll gain fat as the protein is converted and stored as fat. Exercise more and the calorie will be used in part as energy and in part for muscle building. If the sum of the two equals 500 calories, then you should build muscle on top of what you have. No fat gains. In practice though, it is unlikely to be perfectly exact. It may well be that you are able to get it close enough so that the scale or calipers can't tell apart, but that's not the same as saying no fat gain at all.

Ok, now let's say you have a calorie deficit of 500 by not eating more, but do weight training. The body can convert some of the fat as energy required for the exercise (lose fat). But how is it going to find the nutrient to build muscle? Fat does not convert to protein AFAIK. Yes I think that the body will try not to use up muscle as energy as long as it's used especially if fat is plentiful, so your bodyfat percentage should drop.

If you eat enough protein to create an equilibrum, once again, the body has no reason to burn fat again. Yes there may be that phase where the new muscle's demand for energy creates an increased demand in energy and maybe fat can be used a bit. But I've been having double finding info on how much energy muscle use up just by being there. The only source I came across actually gave a very low number.

[j1979]

what toonice said make good sense.

here is an article on visceral fat, it's daily mail (sorry) but it basicly points out that very regular aerobic exercise for 30-45 mins at least 5 times a week is best... but also points out like toonice said that some anaerobic / muscle exercise should be included in any regime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...-fat-joke.html

[Rave]

you totally miss the point.

gaining muscle without gaining any fat. is in theory scientifically possible.. (in theory only).
in reality, with hard work and extream diet, you can gain muscle with minimal fat gains but
gaining muscle and losing fat simultaneously is impossible.

Right, well I have posted links to people who have done exactly that, as you requested. Would you now care to post some links to back up your point of view?

you can have a weight training session and lose fat

or you can have a weight training session and gain muscle with minimal fat gains.

but it is impossible for both to happen at the same time.

Muscle is not built during a weight training session. On the contrary, during a weight training session the muscle is damaged- the strain causes microtears in the fibres. Then when you go to sleep your body repairs the damage. If you lift infrequently then the muscle will just get rebuilt as good as it was. However if it keeps getting damaged regularly, like 2-3 times a week, then your body will repair it bigger and better than it was before, to better withstand the use it's getting.

The op's main aim is to lose fat, and im pointing out cario would be best for someone who wants to lower body fat.

Running a daily calorific deficit is best for someone who wants to lose fat- that's the long and the short of it. This is clearly is what Lucio is doing quite succesfully. 100g of protein contains approx 400 calories. If Lucio were to add a strength workout that burned 400 calories into his regime, and then consume an additional 100g grams of protein, he would gain muscle with no overall detriment to his weight loss progress.

And you have posted a person gaining lean muscle. So?? yes this is possible as part of a training regime.. But not in 1 session, but like i said you can either gain muscle or lose fat in 1 session depending on factors, but you can't do both.

Again this flies in the face of the scientific facts. What happens during a weightlifting session is that you burn some calories and damage some muscle fibres. What you do afterwards is what makes the difference. If you eat some protein- and a bit of fat and carbs so the body doesn't feel like it's being totally starved- it will use that protein to rebuild the muscles bigger and better. If you keep starving yourself and don't eat enoughb protein, it will just make emergency repairs to the muscle and you won't get any stronger.

And if the OP want to lose fat there are better ways.

I disagree. If you run a calorific deficit you will lose fat. There is nothing to stop you gaining muscle at the same time. There is also nothing to stop you gaining muscle without gaining fat.

Here is a rough phonecam video of me deadlifting 165kg. That's almost exactly twice my bodyweight, and according to this guide that rates as a 'good' level of strength:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Teq8su_lM

Albeit that I'm wearing a t-shirt, look at my arms and legs to show that I'm not really carrying much excess fat- I'd say I'm under 15% right now. And I have categorically never bulked and cut to achieve that- my weight has stayed pretty constant for the last two months.

Reason gaining muscle with no fat is theoretically possible though unlikely: Lets say that right now, 2500 calories is -exactly- what you need on your current level of activity. Eat 500 calories of protein and nothing more, you'll gain fat as the protein is converted and stored as fat. Exercise more and the calorie will be used in part as energy and in part for muscle building. If the sum of the two equals 500 calories, then you should build muscle on top of what you have. No fat gains. In practice though, it is unlikely to be perfectly exact. It may well be that you are able to get it close enough so that the scale or calipers can't tell apart, but that's not the same as saying no fat gain at all.

Ok, now let's say you have a calorie deficit of 500 by not eating more, but do weight training. The body can convert some of the fat as energy required for the exercise (lose fat). But how is it going to find the nutrient to build muscle? Fat does not convert to protein AFAIK. Yes I think that the body will try not to use up muscle as energy as long as it's used especially if fat is plentiful, so your bodyfat percentage should drop.

Yes this is fine. But what about the third scenario, where he eats 2000 calories, of which 700 comes from protein, and also lifts weights?

In that case his body is running a calorific deficit, so it will burn fat, and it also has the protein required to build muscle. The two outcomes are in no way mutually exclusive.

Thanks for the tips, but I definately don't want to stay the same weight, I'm still over 19 stone and want to get down to a healthier size.

I'll maybe see if I can convince myself jogging works

I'll keep arguing with j1979 until I'm blue in the face, but it's unlikely that he and I will agree. So here is my advice, and you will have to make your own judgement about who to believe.

So, here it is: decide now what outcome you want from this weight loss regime that you have already started so successfully. If you just want to be a skinny bloke, then carry on dieting and doing cardio- you will keep losing weight, and you will get to have a low bodyfat percentage. Some people like the skinny look, I guess.

But- there's a risk that rapid weight loss from being quite overweight will leave you with some excess skin- it'll shrink eventually, but your weightloss can outrun your skin's ability to adapt. Building muscle will help to offset that. Muscles do burn energy just existing so you will get a small calorie burning advantage from having more (although for reasonable amounts of extra muscle the difference is not going to be great). I am totally convinced that there is absolutely nothing stopping you losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time- just look at the testimonials I posted previously.

And- most importantly IMO- being strong is good for you, and a major ego boost. As long as I do it properly, I can pick up pretty much anything I'm ever going to need to and not worry about hurting my back or whatever. And when I watch a homemade video of me squatting or deadlifting, and see the 1" thick steel bar flex from the heavy weights hanging off the end, that gives me a major buzz.

[j1979]

Right, well I have posted links to people who have done exactly that, as you requested. Would you now care to post some links to back up your point of view?

ive not posted any links because it's scientific fact, same as breathing oxygen. and as much as i like a good debate, it's like creationism vs evolution. I telling you the facts are out there, it's your job to look, should you choose.

but thanks for the apology earlier! lets not fight again

[Rave]

ive not posted any links because it's scientific fact,

You wot? Well if it's scientific fact, there should be ample proof all over the web. PLEASE, I IMLPORE YOU, make me look stupid.

Post the links. Prove your case.

it's like creationism vs evolution. I telling you the facts are out there, it's your job to look,

No, it is your job to rebut the evidence I have posted. I provided several links, if there is a problem with them then it is up to you to point them out. The ball is in your court here.

I am a paid up skeptic, I have A-grades in Physics and Chemistry at A-Level, my mum is a former PhD research scientist into hypersonics, and- erm- powerlifting is my hobby.

This thread seems to have taken an abrupt turn from me insulting your intelligence, to you insulting mine.

Simply stating that your argument is the facts without any effort at all to post a proof simply won't cut it I'm afraid.