Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[kheim]

jonaslasky

Your idea for me to dump ATI is not a bad idea. I have avoided ATI products 100% in the past. I have made error in thinking this 650 card would be different because of all the talk about it. Then I also bought the x1300 thinking that would solve some issues with the 650. As it turns out they are typical ATI junk with a few good features. I would not recomend ATI products of any kind. If I said what I thought of them I would get kicked off the forum. I am going to try really hard to like these ATI products that I am stuck with but I am not optimistic at all. It is hard to understand how ATI can stay in business.

[denyart]

Ati bashing does not help. If you want to post something helpful about these tuners it would be appreciated. Bill, thanks.

[Super XP]

jonaslasky

Your idea for me to dump ATI is not a bad idea. I have avoided ATI products 100% in the past. I have made error in thinking this 650 card would be different because of all the talk about it. Then I also bought the x1300 thinking that would solve some issues with the 650. As it turns out they are typical ATI junk with a few good features. I would not recomend ATI products of any kind. If I said what I thought of them I would get kicked off the forum. I am going to try really hard to like these ATI products that I am stuck with but I am not optimistic at all. It is hard to understand how ATI can stay in business.

It is hard to understand how ATI can stay in business? Because all they do is release high quality products, that is why they are a success. ATI just does it right all the time when I buy there products. I've used & owned many ATI products with no problems at all.

ATI always had the best Image Quality & still keep up there track record by far.

[AIW_VID_FAN]

I again have an open ticket with ATI support again ...
here is a summary of my latest frustrations.

Regarding CMC using almost 100% cpu just watching analog or digital.
I was instructed to uninstall cmd and try another pci slot for the 650,
I had major problems simply trying to remove cmc, the dvd authoring module
seems to be part of the problem.
I tried but I give up on CMC.
Im hoping for MMC support but Beyond TV worked perfectly in testing..
I now have the 650 using MMC915 in an XPPro (AMD 2700)system after several installations.
I have removerd the secondary pci adapter.(as I am told its "unsupported")
The primary card is an AIW7900.
MMC-915 works using the T200 as well as the
650 NTSC tuner and Im happy to say works well
and looks great.
But Since the 650 ATSC driver is "unknown" to MMC915. MMC will not scan and save any ATSC channels.
I can and have added them manually but get no audio. Again the NTSC tuner and audio are great.

I can only beg ATI and hope the New AMD/ATI will consider full support of the 650 with MMC !

I have re installed CMC as well several times,
It works with both tuners but the picture stutters, Task manager shows that CMC has the CPU at almost 100%.
(MMC with the 650 uses only approx 16% CPU.)
Again CMC(Powercinema) seems to be problematic for ATI and your customers.
Any help getting MMC or CMC to simply work is appreciated.
FYI I have also tested the 650 with Beyond TV4 demo and it works with the 650 without any CPU issues.

[Octavean]

AIW_VID_FAN,....

My PowerColor Theater 550 Pro card came with PowerCinema 4 and “Cyberlink DVD Solutions” which basically comprised all the programs of “CyberLink DVD Suite 5”. Unfortunately, the install program was designed to prevent individual installation of any of the programs in the “Cyberlink DVD Solutions” collection so I had to install the full set of apps. After the installation, the otherwise finely tuned and well running system shot up to 100% or near 100% CPU utilization with zero load,….in other words the system was virtually useless!

Oddly enough, individual uninstallation of the installed Cyberlink applications was permissible so I begin uninstalling programs with the hope of only keeping PowerDVD. One of the last programs I uninstalled was Music-match which was inexplicably part of the Cyberlink install package. Uninstalling Music-match corrected the problem.

This dosnt really apply to your issue but it does illustrate how Cyberlink can cause problems needlessly.

My suggestion to you would be if you cannot get around the heavy CPU load in CMC for HDTV then you might want to try the Theater 650 beta enabled version of WatchHDTV,….or other free apps, beta’s and demos (Vista build 5744 or 5840) if money is an issue. If money isn’t an issue then MCE 2K5 and BeyondTV 4 are great alternatives that will have all others pale in comparison.

As for the CMC/Cyberlink high CPU utilization issue I have only two basic suggestions at the moment:

Checkout the “Knowledge Base” over at ATI (many CMC/Cyberlink issues listed there have no resolution offered)

Or

Try to terminate any programs and services running in the background that could be causing interference (maybe even some Cyberlink services that CMC/Cyberlink itself uses).

[fanbanlo]

forget about CMC... Cyberlink is known for their crappy half-baked solution

[kheim]

denyart

Alerting people to the some problems that are brand wide, is far more constructive or helpful then wasting a post on the old and over used "guilty of bashing" accusation.

Super XP

I have repaired/rebuilt over 100 of PCs per year. The facts are clear. ATI's drivers/software has caused far more problems in the past, then Nvidia drivers have. ATI's nice hardware and flashy packaging is only half of a product.

Octavean

I took your advice and setup this problem machine with MCE. (w/650 and X1300 cards.) All of the earlier problems are gone. Some of these problems where 100% cpu, artifacts when playing back in MP, and CMC's many issues of staying stable. The MCE was purchased from Newegg for about $106 w/Vista upgrade. Thanks for the tip.

[kheim]

AIW VID FAN

I had 100% cpu also, along with the many CMC issues. I can understand your frustrations.

I don't have a exact answer. Although I think this could indicate that when viewing or recording with the 650, (which is using the 650's hardware encoding, and the output is being controled by CMC) we end up using a stream or file that is overweight and hard to decode. I felt that I had no control over the output of the 650/CMC combo, so I decided to work on the playback process, which I did have some control of.

I found that with the 100% cpu usage issue, a work around for me was in my X1300 video card. I was using the clone mode. If didn't use the clone mode, and instead, I would switch back and forth manualy to using just the TV or just the monitor, my cpu usage was really low. This should not have to be fixed this way but it worked very well. Try your video playback options.

This did get me around the 100% cpu. but not many CMC/Cyberlink problems. Even though we all know it is Cyberlinks software, keep in mind ATI is claiming ownership so they are the ones that have to fix it.

I tried many ways to like or coexist with CMC. I gave up after 2-3 months. I took Octavean's advice and tried MCE. It is much more usable. There some problems but no where near what I had with CMC.

A free alternitive is GB-PVR. It gave me no problems but it has alot of manual setup and is lacking in some features. Way more stable the CMC. Good Luck.

[AIW_VID_FAN]

Thanks everyone, I was getting lonely waiting for any ATI response.

Octavean:
I have been able to remove CMC but not the DVD authoring module.
Thats what generates the"critical" error message from the "CMC" uninstallation attempt.
I have sent a screenshot to ATI support and now they are now suggesting I usea Microsoft BETA software removal tool.
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;290301.

It gets better, The bitmap I sent them it named powercinemasucks.bmp.It reads exactly "Severe: X This software may only be installed with non-trial PowerCinema . Setup will abort." .

The cpu issue is a cmcservice, I have tried to remove the secondary older radeon 7200 from the system as I was told it was unsupported. It didnt help so I have re installed it and MMC works fine, no cpu issues.

Kheim: I may have had my tv-out enabled, I will have to try disabled,

I didnt know WatchHDTV now supports the 650 but the new version crashes(closes), not sure why.
I agree Beyond TV4 may be the way to go.
I also have high hopes that someday MMC may become 650 aware even though ATI still claims that the 550 is unsupported by MMC.

I had been holding off on MCE as I wasnt sure if it has any DRM issues.
what EPG can it or does it use ? does scheduled recordings work ?
How is the 550/650 behaving in Vista so far?

Thanks

[Octavean]

AIW_VID_FAN

This may sound a little odd but you can try installing the demo version of Cyberlink MakeDVD 2.0.

Cyberlink PowerCinema and MakeDVD do not allow multiple installations of the same program respectively. Therefore, if you try and install Cyberlink PowerCinema on a system with Catalyst Media Center, the PowerCinema install program should detect and prompt an auto uninstall of Catalyst Media Center,….should you wish to proceed. The same should be true of Cyberlink MakeDVD and the version of MakeDVD included in Catalyst Media Center.

Seriously, it might work,….

It is funny you should mention the MakeDVD error message “This software may only be installed with non-trial PowerCinema”. I have seen this error message before and I can honestly say that IMO it is yet another overtly obvious indication of the origins of “Catalyst Media Center”. Of course if ATI were to disclose the nature of the underlying code of “Catalyst Media Center” (AKA admit what the program actually is) it wouldn’t be nearly as funny,...

Kheim

I really hope you will be satisfied with your TV Wonder 650 + MCE 2K5 and future Vista Home Premium solution. At the moment, IMO, MCE 2K5 is really the best option at this time but I do have a great deal of respect for BeyondTV as well as high expectations for Vista MCE.

BTW, I have contacted both Microsoft and newegg with respect to the Vista upgrade program and have posted some info here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17210190

Basically, it’s a great deal IMO as long as you understand the limitations of the OEM EULA.

I have bought another MCE 2K5 license from newegg and this one is eligible for the Vista upgrade program but I will likely buy a retail Vista Home Premium upgrade or full version as well. In addition to that, I might also buy an HP Vista Home Premium MCE PC if the prices aren’t too high,....OCUR / Cablecard,...

[denyart]

You can warn people of your experience with ATI software and hardware without any name calling and excessive illiteration. That was all I was really wanting to say. I mean it is one thing to make a point and another to keep saying the same thing louder and louder and completely throwing it in the face of people who are trying to get on with more constructive things. I am not a fan of ATI by any means, and I agree that I have had better luck with many NVidia drivers. At the same time I and many others are here to try to get help with ATI problems. We don't need people harping constantly that ATI is "crap" and whatnot. One simple comment about the overall reliability of this software would be sufficient. Now bcak to constuctive things. Has anyone else noticed a problem with a dual tuner 650 setup not working on one of the tuners coming out of standby? So far we have two, and the similarities between the two systems seem to point the finger at possbily NVidia hardware/drivers.

[jonaslasky]

You can warn people of your experience with ATI software and hardware without any name calling and excessive illiteration. That was all I was really wanting to say. I mean it is one thing to make a point and another to keep saying the same thing louder and louder and completely throwing it in the face of people who are trying to get on with more constructive things. I am not a fan of ATI by any means, and I agree that I have had better luck with many NVidia drivers. At the same time I and many others are here to try to get help with ATI problems. We don't need people harping constantly that ATI is "crap" and whatnot. One simple comment about the overall reliability of this software would be sufficient. Now bcak to constuctive things. Has anyone else noticed a problem with a dual tuner 650 setup not working on one of the tuners coming out of standby? So far we have two, and the similarities between the two systems seem to point the finger at possbily NVidia hardware/drivers.

The only thing constructive you guys can do is to return your T 650 based tuner cards and don't buy it again until ATI fixes the problems with it. Good luck on that because ATI has already conceded that some of those problems can never be fixed. As far as i know two T550 still don't work together. I know some of us here take it personally when somebody points out that the Theater series is crap. It's hard for them to accept that they have been so gullible. This is why despite so many warnings, con artists still thrive in society. People are so reluctant to admit they have been duped, for fear of looking like fools.

Let me be the first one to admit that I've been duped by ATI with the T 550. It's a crappy piece of hardware that ATI has told me will never be fixed. Instead they introduced the T 650. Well that T 650 is just as crappy. People like you don't want to hear it because it makes you guys feel like idiots for believing them. Well get over it and dump the T650. No hardware is worth all that grief. You've probably put more work into it than ATI engineers have. There are so many other products out there that work better for less money.

To be clear, ATI makes many good products, but the Theater series is broken. Simple as that.

Jonas

[vddobrev]

The only thing constructive you guys can do is to return your T 650 based tuner cards and don't buy it again until ATI fixes the problems with it. Good luck on that because ATI has already conceded that some of those problems can never be fixed. As far as i know two T550 still don't work together. I know some of us here take it personally when somebody points out that the Theater series is crap. It's hard for them to accept that they have been so gullible. This is why despite so many warnings, con artists still thrive in society. People are so reluctant to admit they have been duped, for fear of looking like fools.

Let me be the first one to admit that I've been duped by ATI with the T 550. It's a crappy piece of hardware that ATI has told me will never be fixed. Instead they introduced the T 650. Well that T 650 is just as crappy. People like you don't want to hear it because it makes you guys feel like idiots for believing them. Well get over it and dump the T650. No hardware is worth all that grief. You've probably put more work into it than ATI engineers have. There are so many other products out there that work better for less money.

To be clear, ATI makes many good products, but the Theater series is broken. Simple as that.

Jonas

Just shut up! What Grief? The only thing I have with my dual ATI 650 is just great time! Ever isnce I dumped the Fusion HDTV crap, my HDTV recordings are soooo much better - no hickups, no lost signal. You are just waisting your time here. We can start arguing now if you want...
As far as the problem with stand by - well I will simply leave the system on until this issue is resolved. Until then I will simply concentrate on enjoying HDTV, while you may continue pouring your misery.
And by the way, I actually did try all hardware I mentioned in a previous post. You simply cannot belive it? That's your problem.
And one more thing - if you expect from a hardware/software product to work from its very first release, you simply don't live in this world. I have been in the software industry for 11 years now, and this is how things work - software is released with many bugs. Why? Because of pressure and competition. Just remember - any hardware/software you buy today HAS BUGS!!! We developers* If you can point me one single hardware/software that was released without problems, I will be most greatful. The question is - can you live with these problems until and if they are fixed? In the case of ATI 650 - my answer is yes. If yours is no, that is your problem. Peace, enjoy your dream world!

* Edit - corrected devolopers to developers, thanks Jonas for pointing that out!

[Octavean]

My preference is to simply acquire and disperse accurate information on a product, whether it be largely positive or negative is inconsequential,…it is what it is,…

I do not attempt to make decisions for people based on this information because I know that people have minds of their own and are fully capable of drawing conclusions for themselves.

[jonaslasky]

Just shut up! What Grief? The only thing I have with my dual ATI 650 is just great time! Ever isnce I dumped the Fusion HDTV crap, my HDTV recordings are soooo much better - no hickups, no lost signal. You are just waisting your time here. We can start arguing now if you want...
As far as the problem with stand by - well I will simply leave the system on until this issue is resolved. Until then I will simply concentrate on enjoying HDTV, while you may continue pouring your misery.
And by the way, I actually did try all hardware I mentioned in a previous post. You simply cannot belive it? That's your problem.
And one more thing - if you expect from a hardware/software product to work from its very first release, you simply don't live in this world. I have been in the software industry for 11 years now, and this is how things work - software is released with many bugs. Why? Because of pressure and competition. Just remember - any hardware/software you buy today HAS BUGS!!! We devolopers try to cover the baddest before initial release, and not critical bugs will be fixed after release.
If you can point me one single hardware/software that was released without problems, I will be most greatful. The question is - can you live with these problems until and if they are fixed? In the case of ATI 650 - my answer is yes. If yours is no, that is your problem. Peace, enjoy your dream world!

Here we go again with 11 years of expertise in some made up thing. If you had that kind of experience you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be so temperamental. Really... your argument style is so lacking in logical thought... so devoid of facts. You can't even spell DEVELOPERS correctly how can I take you seriously?

The fact is, the T 550 came out broken... and after over a hundred pages of grief .. yes GRIEF for the poor people who believed ATI's claims... it stays unresolved. ATI in the end admitted that it's largely unfixable. Then they released the T 650. Again with great promises. Again it came out broken. Even more broken than the T 550. It simply wouldn't work at all. After a few fixes.... it's still not 100%. I'm not even talking about the inherited problems from the 550 that were never fixed.

Yeah I still think you're lying about trying all those tuner cards. just like you're lying about being a "DEVOLOPER". If you did have a problem with HDTV stuttering it was likely your fault. It's a common problem across the different brands because DEVOLOPERS like yourself have no clue what they're doing. But if drivers and decoders are installed properly, ATI's T 650 has the greatest number of problems. No other brand has such a long list of problems... and so many complaints from users. We're already on page 29 of this forum.

ATI should give up.

Jonas

[vddobrev]

Here we go again with 11 years of expertise in some made up thing. If you had that kind of experience you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be so temperamental. Really... your argument style is so lacking in logical thought... so devoid of facts. You can't even spell DEVELOPERS correctly how can I take you seriously?

The fact is, the T 550 came out broken... and after over a hundred pages of grief .. yes GRIEF for the poor people who believed ATI's claims... it stays unresolved. ATI in the end admitted that it's largely unfixable. Then they released the T 650. Again with great promises. Again it came out broken. Even more broken than the T 550. It simply wouldn't work at all. After a few fixes.... it's still not 100%. I'm not even talking about the inherited problems from the 550 that were never fixed.

Yeah I still think you're lying about trying all those tuner cards. just like you're lying about being a "DEVOLOPER". If you did have a problem with HDTV stuttering it was likely your fault. It's a common problem across the different brands because DEVOLOPERS like yourself have no clue what they're doing. But if drivers and decoders are installed properly, ATI's T 650 has the greatest number of problems. No other brand has such a long list of problems... and so many complaints from users. We're already on page 29 of this forum.

ATI should give up.

Jonas

Well, you've made it clear - the only thing you can do is mockup people and companies... Is that your hobby? Temperamental? Look at your posts, they are the most temperamental of all - dum this and dump that, as if you are the holy grail of knowledge and expertise. Oh yea, _devolopers_ - just a simple typo, English is my 3rd language - how many do you speak/write, other than the bashing language?
That was the last time I am arguing with you, Jonas. Over and out.