1.4 Rover Vs 2.0 Golf GTi

[hotpurple]

Originally posted by sparky191
Thats very useful on a race track if you have the right driver. The V5 is a GT the ST170 is a hot hatch for boy racers. Theres little point in comparing them. Unless your interested in some inane kind of pissing contest.

I find it sad that many 10yr 1.6 motors can all do 0-60 in around 8 sec with some excellent driving dynamics, whereas most of today's bloat mobiles need stupid amounts of power and weight to do the same thing generally with flawed dynamics. Of course its even less useful to have a fast car these days than it was 10 yrs ago with all the restrictions you have now.

This I have to agree with. My 1.6 Honda CRX is 15 years old now and does 0-60 in 7.8 (manufacturers quoted figure). It's all about power to weight, and I have enough of the former and very little of the latter. The interior is quite nice as well, the seats are awesome.

Chris

[3Dfx]

My 1.6 Honda CRX is 15 years old now and does 0-60 in 7.8

Yes but alot of people want more than that.

1: Air Con
2: Traction Control
3: Sat Nav
4: 600000 Air Bags
5: CD Changer
6: 10spk Stereo's
7: 18" Alloys
8: ABS
9: EBD and the other acronyms

So as u can see, all that adds to the weight and therefore more power is needed.

Newer cars are better than older cars, thats a fact, otherwise... we'd NEVER change our cars... but "SOME" rely on driver aids too much and ... well the handling aint excellent and sum cars dont have the speed/acceleration that the bhp would make out...

So basically, that 1.6CRX may be a nice car, but then again so is Mr X's Golf V5 and so is Mr A's Astra GSI and so on and so on.

Look at it this way..

mk3 Astra GSI 16v = 150Bhp - 0-60 in 8secs (approx)
mk4 Astra GSI = 200Bhp - 0-60 in 7.8secs (approx)

What'd u rather have? the one with the extra Bhp and more "features" like Air Con etc... or the older mk3... which was probably the better car to "DRIVE" ... altho the handling sucked.


... horses for courses... I like the mk3 Golf over the mk4 cos u sit lower in the car... LOL ... I hate sitting up high... small point, but to ME it makes a world of difference.

[hotpurple]

okay,

1, You can get crx's with climate control, let alone air con so you can't really argue that point.

2, Traction control, what a waste of time, I have a right foot for that. All it does is take away another level of control from the driver. (In this case I agree with Peter Wheeler). I've used traction control and it's horrible.

3, Sat Nav, Can be bought as an after market thing anyway.

4, The airbag thing yes, 1980's hot hatches are not known for their safety credentials it has to be said.

5, CD changer, I've got one, aftermarket again, all you need to do is pop down to your local Halfords and give the man on the ripspeed counter your hard earned.

6, 10 spk stereos, see above.

7, 18" alloys. Why would I want those, So I can make my ride quality worse and reduce my lock, generally ruining my driving expereience. I think not.

8, ABS, again the UK VTEC models of the CRX came with this as standard. This is a driver aid that I do like. Having tried cars with and without them when I did a skid control course at donnington park a few years ago.

9, EBD, another level of control taken away from the driver.


Ok, I can see your point about certain things, and obviously car manufacturers do make cars that people will buy. But my own personal preference is for a car that handles well, goes well and stops well. For tha money I paid for my car I can get most of the above features fitted and still have money left over, rather than buying a more modern car.

In my car you sit very low and you have a very good connection with the road. The engine is amazing, very keen to rev and a wide power band. The light weight allows it to be very agile and makes up for the engine's lack of low down torque. The gearbox is very short which allows the most to be wrung from the engine (remember that this engine does have 130bhp, quite impressive when you think it's 15years old).

Of course any car is a compromise and you should get what you like the most. Unfortunately the only cars I currently like in the performance mould are the type r cars. I prefer the purer route of making the car lighter and tuning the normally aspirated engine up more, as opposed to adding a turbo, or a huge engine and then taming it by using every electronic contraption under the sun. Ok, it might be impressive but i'm sure it's less fun.

Chris

[3Dfx]

But my own personal preference is for a car that handles well, goes well and stops well.

cant fault the Focus then... especially the RS.

and its got all those electronic gadgets...I bet there aint many... or any... 80's cars will stay with it around a few sharp corners...

[Butuz]

Originally posted by Skii
No Butuz

Horses for courses.

Isnt that what i was saying?

Originally posted by Skii
what annoys me is someone saying that by owning a Golf I have more money than sense.

Well - i never said that. But either way what i am trying to get across is that [i think] its a bit sad that some people take others oppinions so seriously, serious enough to drag a thread out 9 pages if you get me. People who dont like golfs said so, people who do like golfs, said so too. Skip forward 8 pages, and we're still there, this thread aint going too far is it?

Like i said - call my focus crap. Tt don't bother me. Call a golf faster, well we'll never find out unless you join me @ castle coombe, and prove it. I respect others oppinions really, but at the same time, they are others oppionions, not mine. Which is why it dont bother me too much.

Originally posted by Skii
And I often find the tone of your posts blunt and to some extent aggressive FYI.

Well thats fair enough - some of my posts are blunt, but i speak my mind, no brubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish. I wouldnt say i am agressive too often though.

Lets cut to the chase, i responded to one post of yours in paticular a few weeks back in a blunt manner, because it required it. And you don't like me for that. Thats unfortunate because i do like you and you bring alot to these forums.

Butuz

[Skii]

Butuz

The comment about more money than sense was made by Oxide,

Thats what annoyed me, and thats what made me bite (but the bottle of Baileys didn't help).

We all love our cars and we all like to have a dig at the odd marque or two, but frankly I'm getting a little tired of the 'Golfs are crap' attitude around here. Your comment about VW owners being aggressive is probably the result of 3Dfx's and my own recent activities in the Cars and Bikes section, understandable given the amount of threads generated.

Just for the record i'm very fond of Focuses, one thing they certainly isn't, is crap - if I had the money I'd be down the local stealership driving an RS away.

And there's nothing personal here m8y, I saw red, and the pissing contest ensued, no beef from earlier forum encounters, certainly not in this corner

[3Dfx]

but frankly I'm getting a little tired of the 'Golfs are crap' attitude around here.

Join the club.

Sumtimes I think... jealousy? ... but then, people are in better cars than Golf's... so it cant be that... then its cos Golf's are "bloated"... but so are Focus's...and Astra's and everything else these days.

Just for the record i'm very fond of Focuses

Ditto. Wouldnt mind owning an ST170.. not the fastest thing, but it'd do me nicely...

I will say this... Escorts suck... but thats my opinion... Ford has really screwed its head on properly since about 1998ish... when the Focus was released etc and even the new Fiesta is supposed to be good!

[3Dfx]

Btw, why didnt Ford use the old 1.5l engine outta the old Puma for the new Sport Ka? or wotever its called... imo it'd have been better and more sporty

[hotpurple]

Originally posted by 3Dfx
cant fault the Focus then... especially the RS.

and its got all those electronic gadgets...I bet there aint many... or any... 80's cars will stay with it around a few sharp corners...

Round a track i'd agree. Unfortunately on anything less well surfaced the quaife diff goes mad and makes the thing go all over the place. For road applications a plate lsd is a much better idea.

Don't get me wrong, the Focus RS is very quick but I'd be terrified to drive it fast. And as that's what that car is all about I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. An integra Type R would be my all time favorite without going to silly money or silly running costs. Small light and nimble.

Chris

[hotpurple]

Originally posted by 3Dfx
Btw, why didnt Ford use the old 1.5l engine outta the old Puma for the new Sport Ka? or wotever its called... imo it'd have been better and more sporty

The Puma's never had a 1.5. And the twin cam engine won't fit under the bonnet.

Chris

[3Dfx]

I thought the Puma was a 1.5l...

Dumb bonnet... should be bigger! .... lol

[hotpurple]

Have you seen the shape of a Ka? The problem is it would make the bonnet too hard if they made the engine wider or taller so if you hit a pedestrian it would hurt, a lot.

FYI pumas came in 1.4,1.6 and 1.7 guises.

Chris

[3Dfx]

Have you seen the shape of a Ka?

its the second reason I hate them... first reason is the wheelarches...especially the big black plastic ones.

1.7 the diesel unit? ... Theres one that was a REALLY good engine... i thought 1.5l .... maybe it was 1.6 or 1.7 if its petrol... dont think it is, but then again I cant ever remember "hearing" a diesel Puma...

[Butuz]

Originally posted by Skii
Butuz

The comment about more money than sense was made by Oxide,

Thats what annoyed me, and thats what made me bite (but the bottle of Baileys didn't help).

Well - at the end of the day - thats for you to decide and no one else isnt it? Your hard earned cash after all.

Originally posted by Skii
We all love our cars and we all like to have a dig at the odd marque or two, but frankly I'm getting a little tired of the 'Golfs are crap' attitude around here. Your comment about VW owners being aggressive is probably the result of 3Dfx's and my own recent activities in the Cars and Bikes section, understandable given the amount of threads generated.

I agree. And its unfortunate when peeps take the piddle out of any car most especially when it is a forum members car. After all we are all [supposedly] here to discuss our love of cars not to try and make others feel small. There are quite a few peeps on here with cars that i love, ill take lowe as an example because he didnt have to spend £50k to craft a car that makes people jealous. I am jealous of his car, i love the idea of having a wolf in sheeps clothing. Find it far more appealing that having a sheep in wolf's clothing which is what most people it seems would prefer.

Lets face facts - someone who comes on and says "haha your cars crap lalalala dadaadada etc" is just jealous. What other emotion would cause such a random, agressive, un-needed reaction other than jealousy? Its built in to all humans, and its totally obvious when it happens

Originally posted by Skii
Just for the record i'm very fond of Focuses, one thing they certainly isn't, is crap - if I had the money I'd be down the local stealership driving an RS away.

Yeh you aint the only one The RS is a stonking car.

I would say that, the golf set the benchmark for all fast hatch / GTI's with the amazing mark1. Ever since then, everyone else has been catching up, and thats what makes the latest golfs seem not quite so amazing as the original. Lets not forget - as well as the extra bloatware kit that VW HAVE to include in the golf otherwise they wouldnt sell any (electric lala, abs, air con, etc), they are forced to make a safe car, and theres no denying a MK5 golf is safer then a Mk1 in any kind of accident. Fact is, the Mk1 golf wouldnt be alowed to be sold nowadays, if VW did still sell it, they'd end up having to add airbags, extra reinforcement, etc etc etc, and thats what the new golf has become, unfortunatly due to this "progress" the new golf needs 200bhp to be proper fast, the old golf didnt, but you'd die in an old golf if you hit something fast, you probably wouldnt in the new one.

Originally posted by Skii
And there's nothing personal here m8y, I saw red, and the pissing contest ensued, no beef from earlier forum encounters, certainly not in this corner

Well i am very glad about that. You saw red because a red flag was waved right in front of your face. I prefer Chequered flags meself not red ones

Butuz

[Skii]

The new Sport KA has a 1.6. By all accounts its a nippy little bugger.

And I like them a lot too

[Butuz]

Originally posted by 3Dfx
its the second reason I hate them... first reason is the wheelarches...especially the big black plastic ones.

1.7 the diesel unit? ... Theres one that was a REALLY good engine... i thought 1.5l .... maybe it was 1.6 or 1.7 if its petrol... dont think it is, but then again I cant ever remember "hearing" a diesel Puma...

Puma was 1.4 and 1.7 petrol as far as i recall. No deisils.

Never seen a 1.6 one to be honest. Wasnt aware they did 1.6 pumas.

Butuz