Buying games when they're old is great!

[dangel]

He's made a reasonable point though - there's nothing morally wrong in buying second hand (i sell my games on eventually too). One of my friend's can't really afford games new but he loves gaming so he often picks them up off me for a tenner (or whatever). Sure, he ain't gonna die if he doesn't play games but then him buying them off me means i've got a few more quid to spend on new ones - and there's your ecosystem.

[kalniel]

Yes definitely - the money you give to the person selling is money they're likely to go and spend on a new game anyway, so it does filter up a little, you just have less influence on future games that are made (like if I sold something like COD4 then used the money to buy peggle )

[danroyle]

Just like we don't watch TV if we can't afford a set or the license fee.

that is the funniest thing i have ever heard, i have a tv license always have, dont think its worth the risk of not having one,

most if not all of my mates on the other hand DO not now or ever have owned tv licenses, and have never been caught. us on the other hand in the past 5 years (not in the current flat yet) have been visited by tv licensing officers 3 times and have had to produce a license on our doorstep. it drives me up the wall.

[kalniel]

But they don't steal a TV to watch just because they don't want to give money to a big evil corporation

[revol68]

It's got nothing to do with being well off, just rather simple self-control of not playing something you can't afford. Just like we don't watch TV if we can't afford a set or the license fee. No-one is forcing you to play and you won't be worse off for not playing a game.

But that's the point people are talking about not buying pre owned (and even reduced) games, that is games they can afford out of concern for the games companies, I mean that is just insane, it's not like you see games companies concerning themselves with how the price of their games and consoles will put pressure on families at christmas as kids want to be able to have the same game as their mates, yet here people are suggesting consumers should not buy games on sale and pre owned out of concern that games companies make less profit. Like honestly it's barmy and can only be possible amongst a culture of general fan boyims where people stupidly identify with companies and products. Seriously how many of the people with concerns about buying pre owned or reduced games share similar concerns when buying cars, kitchen utensils, washing machines, or even clothes?

Not only is it weird it's also based on a hilariously niave idea of how economics and industries work (posssibly a hang over form the comparative youth of the games industry). Do you think the amount of profit on a game really effects the grunt programmers, testers and the like? They get paid a wage, it would only be the top of the food chain that see's any significant gain, namely the directors and managers. When a developer works for say EA they don't own their own work, they don't hold the rights over the code they've written, EA as a company own it and if you tried to take your work elsewhere you'd be facing a lawsuit before you could say DRM.

[revol68]

But they don't steal a TV to watch just because they don't want to give money to a big evil corporation

eh no but if they had a machine at home capable of replicating a nice tv by simply downloading the instructions to do so without requiring more chinese labourers to sit on a production line for 12 hours a day...

Anyway that's a moot point as alot of people have bought second hand tv's and I've never came across anyone worrying about poor Mr Sony CEO getting a few less pounds in his Xmas bonus.

[Hicks12]

Do you think the amount of profit on a game really effects the grunt programmers, testers and the like? They get paid a wage, it would only be the top of the food chain that see's any significant gain

Now that is wrong because they get paid a wage from a company THAT depends on the profits made from a game and you ARE not helping it as you support ****ty piracy so in effect you will cause the collapse of film/game/ industry by getting it for free so all them developers wont see their wage as the company will be in liquidation and their christmas will be ruined.

Buying secondhand games are fine but download=fail and it will actually hit u bk in the face as no games will be out.

Why do you always have to disagree with people and say they are wrong when you are?.

[revol68]

Now that is wrong because they get paid a wage from a company THAT depends on the profits made from a game and you ARE not helping it as you support ****ty piracy so in effect you will cause the collapse of film/game/ industry by getting it for free so all them developers wont see their wage as the company will be in liquidation and their christmas will be ruined.

Buying secondhand games are fine but download=fail and it will actually hit u bk in the face as no games will be out.

Why do you always have to disagree with people and say they are wrong when you are?.

I'm talknig about the claim that buying a game has a DIRECT relationship to the amount of money the grunt programmers and the such recieve. Of course if a company isn't making a profit on any of their games then they will go under and the developers won't be getting a wage from that company. However whilst a game maintains a profit then the grunts get their wages but see next to nothing of the extra profit from it being say a massive seller over being a merely good one. Also agian it's funny how the ethical concerns of gamers are so often so myopic, I really wonder if they extend such concern to things like the car industry or even textile and clothes manufacturing? Does our nerdy gamer concern themselves that by buying from Primark they are undercutting the clothing industry in Indonesia and generally fueling a race to the bottom in terms of wages and conditions? Does our myopic gamer elect to buy their clothes from expensive boutiques who pay better wages to their manufacturers? What about food? Does our gamer boycott big supermarkets in order to bolster the more expensive farmers market?

[danroyle]

But they don't steal a TV to watch just because they don't want to give money to a big evil corporation

not sure how you jumped to that i thought the topic was buying cheap games not piracy.

although my stand on piracy is the same as my stand on not having a tv license or sleeping with a cheap hooker. i'd rather not risk it the consequences are not appealing.

[kafei]

@revol - Actually I work in the industry, and sales figures have a very direct impact on my job - as you say, whether or not you buy a game preowned will not effect the salary of the more important people in the company but sales figures determine all kinds of other factors, not least whether or not I am required. The company I work for is owned by a very big publisher, and all they care about is numbers - they look at how much money the first game made and decide from that how much they want to invest in the next one, not just in terms of time and manpower but in terms of working conditions and benefits for the employees. The vast majority of the people who work here (myself included) are contracters, basically meaning that we can be dropped at a minutes notice if the tide turns. And some of us were, the entire department I worked in was made redundant for 2 weeks only to be hired again when the numbers started to look different (some people had moved on to other jobs though, so they really shot themselves in the foot there). It's no exaggeration that second hand sales hurt the industry more than piracy, the majority of people who pirate games do so because they really can't afford the real thing, so essentially a customer isn't being lost as they couldn't have bought it anyway. But when someone goes into a store with the intention of paying for a game and then picks up a preowned copy for £5 cheaper, that is a paying customer that has been snatched away. I wasn't attempting to preach at anyone, I don't care how you spend your money, I was just saying that personally I like to take the option that leads to a +1 sale for the developer and hopefully some more work and better conditions for the guys who made it.

Incidentally, to address your example of a car - no, I'm not as interested in supporting something that I'm not a 'fanboy' of - that's the idea of being a fan really, you like something a lot and want to spend your money supporting it. I have no particular interest in cars. Besides which, the difference between a pre-owned and a new car can be tens of thousands of pounds, wheras the difference between a new game and a preowned one is usually about ten pounds. If I could afford a new car I'd love one, but I can't. I can afford new games though, so I buy them.

[educatedfool]

Just like we don't watch TV if we can't afford a set or the license fee.

Completely off-topic. If that were to have any relation to buying games at reduced prices it would need to be about not buying a LEGIT TV license if it was at a reduced price because the BBC wouldn't be getting as much money. Jeez some of the piracy phrases are sounding like a stuck record now, and this isn't even about piracy.



I generally don't mind waiting, Ive only bought 2 games recently within a week of release and that is Fable 2 and Fallout 3. I got Fable 2 at 10% student discount too (Although I left my student card in Xtravision and it mysteriously vanished, so I had to pay 10 quid to get another one, making it more expensive overall )

[Technogeek]

I only play one game and that it Tomb Raider! I will be in the shop at 9am in the morning of 21st November to get my special edition copy of Underworld!!
I can't wait another month for it!!!

[shaithis]

It's starting to head towards a future where games publishers won't be happy until all games are charged per minute of playtime.

If the industry do not want people to buy/sell games second hand, then they need to do something about budgets, prices and game quality.

A lot of gamers are children, they cannot afford to be spending 40-50ukp on games that last them 12 hours of play. Admittedly, the average age of a gamer is constantly on the increase but the older players aren't normally the ones with tons of time on their hands, nor are they likely to be the gamers most likely to complete a game in the shortest possible time.

Perhaps we expect too much, is that our fault though or the software houses that keep pushing bigger and bigger budgets towards games?

For a lot of people game play is still king, not graphics, not some random franchise.....in fact at the weekend I had some friends around and what did everyone want to play? The original PS1 Worms...which luckily the PS3 plays, even though the gfx looked terrible on a 50" wide-screen display

[kafei]

I think it's all going to head the way of Steam...one purchase for as many installs as you like, no physical copy of the game, no way of passing it on second hand...I don't necassarily like that (I like to have the box / manual / disc etc.), but it's looking like the best model at the moment imo

[Fortunate Son]

U could get 4 360 games for £20 in gamestation including forza 2

[nukeman8]

Has no one looked at it from a different point of view?
If more second hand games get brought the less of the need to manufacture brand new ones
therefor cutting down on waste and the general whole gobal warming issue.

People are going to loose out which ever way you do it.