The problem with consoles for PC gamers...

[Agent]

Im a PC "only" gamer - i may get a console due to the recent drops but im undecided.
Now, the thing that bothers me with a console is the controls. When will people learn that you can NOT play a FPS game with a pad. The layout is just too poor, and you can forget complex moves.

Zelda ? - yeah, pad everytime. It suits the game perfectly, but the next gen of consoles should have the power to run somthing like UT2004 without any problems. Unreal championship is very close on the Xbox, its not bad for a console game. But just look at how much it could lead too.... i mean, there is no reason why you couldnt be playing a copy of Command and conquer : Generals on the next gen consoles if i wasnt for the old, clunky control system, and insisting that i must use a pad.

Which brings me to my second point.....image output.
Wake up please. I dont want to keep playing my games on a low res TV. HDTV's are a while from becoming mainstream, so give us a dam VGA port !
I know it will not look as impressive on a monitor...but its so annoying to play it on a TV all the time !

If those 2 things were on ANY console in the future, id buy it.
VoIP is already inplace. Xbox live shows it can be done...and that it can be done well.
So give me the ability to have a fully configurable keyboard + mouse for all / most games, and a decent image output, and im all yours.....

So any other PC "only" gamers want to share what would make them switch ?

[Knoxville]

The only thing I dislike about consoles is fps control systems that are badly done, I don't really need a vga output tbh as I spent a load on a good t.v for my room. All the things you mention have been done but on seperate consoles, The dreamcast had fully configurable keyboard and mouse options for games that needed it like quake 3 and it also had an official vga adaptor.

And fps's on console pads........I admit most have been a shambles but TS2, goldeneye and perfect dark are among the few that prove it can be done and can be done well and funnily enough they all come from pretty much the same development team.

As you say though consoles still have they're advantages in certain genre's, tekken, tony hawks, pro evoloution soccer, gran turismo without specific made control devices these wouldn't play on a keyboard and mouse well at all.

[directhex]

i would love vga, actually. the dreamcast was a real treat on that front, with all but about 10 games officially supporting VGA output - and looking pretty damn nice whilst doing it. it was handy at uni to have the dreamcast sitting on the pc, for a quick game of Rez or Jet Set Radio. the Micomsoft XRGB2+ can produce incredible quality VGA output from any console - but commands a three figure price tag to match its abilities.

the ps2 has usb ports & can use keyboard/mouse in a limited number of games (and the official sony keyboard/mouse come with sony ps2 linux). however there's a general reluctance to make it official in all cases, as really it automatically becomes a PC. a keyboard isn't a gaming input device, it's a modification of a typewriter, whose key layout was designed to slow down typists. a LOT of thought goes into pad design on consoles, and try asking someone who works in pad design (such as shigeru miyamoto) about the typewriter & 1970s plotter as input devices - watch their expression. as knox said, some games are designed to use the pad as an FPS and do so very well - but you can't immediately transport the exact same games & expect them to work - something like ut2004 relies on the ability to twitch your right hand to a new position & click as fast as possible. without the sensitivity of this, you simply can;'t play the same games - and the games knox quoted make for fast action-packed gaming but are actually very laid back & relaxed to compensate for control difficulties

[cm_uk]

id have to aggree with knox too...some games u just need a pad for. lol i use a ps2 adaptor so that i can play nfsu on my pc with a ps2 controller.lol i could never play it with a keeyboardgames like perfect dark and goldeneye have definatly got the pad controls knacked,they are still fun to play with a pad even after being used to a kewboard and mouse.also time splitters 2 also rocks with a controller on the ps2

[Knoxville]

the games knox quoted make for fast action-packed gaming but are actually very laid back & relaxed to compensate for control difficulties

I agree with everything there but this last point, TS2 is in no way laid back in later levels or in deathmatches with multiple players and the controls still work at high speed because they've been extremely well thought out. Goldeneye and perfect dark were either slower due to a hardware limitation or to make up for controls but I wouldn't think its the latter as the N64 pad was one of the best and most versatile pads ever imo.

[Howard]

There are games designed for pads, yes. But most can still be played easily with a keyboard and mouse.

A VGA output would be lovely. They can quite often look ****e on anything less than a 100Hz Flatscreen TV. And even then the resolution isn't anywhere near what you'll get from a computer monitor so won't look fantastic. But that's what they're designed to look good on. Play it through a monitor and you'll see how badly the graphics compare to a PC game

[Bunjiweb]

Xbox can have vga output, you just need to buy the cable. You can also buy a Keyboard and mouse that is configurable for use with nearly all games. We stock these in Gamestation they're about £20 or so.

Consoles are getting better all the time, and the next gen will set out to prove this. I am particularly looking forward to the PSP which will be great as IMHO Console gaming has always longed for something this powerful in a handheld form.

I Still love my PC, and like you Agent, only play FPS on my pc (unless I have to!) as pads just can't cut it.

If I were to suggest getting a console at the moment It would be an Xbox, But in a couple of months The Gamecube will be starting to majorly come back into things (New Zelda, Res 4, Metroid Prime 2 etc...)

Ben

[Spud1]

Consoles have a bigger problem - but its as a result of all you mentioned and more agent.

consoles, specifically the Xboc, are RUINING pc games.

I have evidence

Deus Ex 2...Should have been a monumental PC game, ended up being a rubbish console port. Low res textures, cluttered interface, massivly simplified gameplay...Sequals are supposed to evolve..not de-evolve. The game was dumbed down to be more appealing to more people - rather than being a game with depth. The textures had to be lower res as the Xbox couldnt handle high res textures - and why would it need to when it was outputting to a TV? The interface/Hud..it was huge, and clearly designed for a pad. When you have a KB tho it made no sense at all, couldnt use shortcuts or anything, stuck with this big ring in the middle of your screen....

then theres thief3...Similar problems here, tho not as bad. Textures were better here, but the interface problem still remained, and then theres the biggest issue with this particialr port. the map sizes. They were tiny...it was like playing half life again with loads every 10 mins. 5 years ago that was fair enough, ppl didnt have enough ram for bigger maps. but now the norm is 512 or 1024...most ppl have at least 128.

Both of those games should have been really excellent games, but both were developed for the xbox and then ported to the PC

as a result i am a devine Xbox hater, and cant wait for it to die a horribly painful death. Nothing good has come from it

[Grey M@a]

To be honest I don't see why there is always this PC versus Console battle, for one who cares. Whether it be a PC or Console, if it has the games you want to play then go for it. I play both formats, PC and Console, started out on the PC for a few years then moved to a console. Personally I don't mind either but I must agree with those saying you need pads for some of the PC games, such as the racing games etc

In respects to the VGA output, you can buy vga units that will plug into all the consoles available at this present time and play it on your monitor or projector. I have one myself which I was given and its great so there is no reason to complain about the lack of output to a higher res display. Thing is, each platform has its pro's and con's this includes both PC's and Consoles.

[Bunjiweb]

I disagree. You are just bitter, although right about Deus Ex 2...... But without individuals and small time developers making original titles and flourishing like they used to its all EA, EA, EA.

Ben

[Spud1]

i dont have a problem with consoles as such, just the ones that mess up perfectly good PC games...

[RoGuE|SaBeR]

Errr... Thief 3 rocks?!

Yea ok so graphically it maybe isn't as sharp as it could be but gameplay wise it is top notch plus the level design is superb! The Craddle is one of the best levels ever designed! First game I have seen that used shadows for a legitimate reason and not just as eye candy.

As for the topic...

I have all three current generation consoles and not one of them has really made me give up on the PC for any length of time, there have been very few games that have had me hooked on consoles. (Zelda, MGS, Vice City, Final Fantasy Series)

First Person Shooters are for the PC, simple as. Take Pro Gamers as an example, you don't see any of them using game pads at the CPL for UT2004 or CS and I would take a guess that they would know what they are talking about. It just isn't practical in any way to use a pad to control movement required in an FPS with a thumb stick or 2 and a few buttons.

I like consoles though and I don't see them as a plaige designed to destroy the realm of PC gaming and condem it to the vast, firey depths of hell. Some games, especially sports, work so well on consoles. Always have and probably always will do. The Pro Evolution soccer games are amazing and Gran Tourismo is possibly the best driving game ever when all factors such as depth, graphics, handling and physics are taken into account. (Granted each one is bettered in another game but fails in others, GT is the whole package)

PCs will always have benefits and drawbacks as will consoles. It's up to taste, technical ability, willingness to spend money and well , yea, taste again I suppose.

[directhex]

wow, some reasoned debate

spud1, i can tell you from experience that during game design, textures & models & things are made in extreme resolution then dumbed down to suit whichever platform the end result is going onto. dx:iw's low resolution textures were partly a result of laziness, and partly a result of publisher rushing. as for the dumbed down ui etc, deus ex was a phenomenal game but sold poorly - and in the end, these people need to make a living

and the playstation 2 port of deus ex worked very well on a pad, with a redesigned ui & control system which translated well onto tv/pad - the simplification was to appeal to more people & sell more, not as a result of being designed with xbox in mind

[Da Hoe]

Cant see how anyone can blame the Xbox for DX2. Shouldnt you be waving your accusing finger at the developers rather than the hardware makers ?

Maybe we should all start moaning at ID for making us spend £300 on a new graphics card etc. Its a stupid arguement, there was no reason for DX2 to be 'consolified' on the PC apart from lazy development and pressures from the publishers to get it out.

Take Doom 3. The PC version and Xbox version are basically 2 different games rather than made for one then ported to the other. Does this mean by your arguement that you will then praise the Xbox for doing something right ?

Developers and publishers ... not the hardware.

And as for FPS on joypads, I think it totally depends. Of course, you would have to be more than slightly not right in the head to play a PC FPS on a joypad. But on a console (especially if your playing online against other console users) I dont think it detracts from the game at all. Just means you have to change the style you generally play with. Take CS or Rainbow Six 3 on Xbox live. Yes its not as fast paced or manic as the PC versions, however with everyone being on the same hardware its still very much fun to play and enough to have a good, enjoyable game.

[Spud1]

if the xbox wasnt there then the developers wouldnt have to mess about dumbing down games and we would get PC-orientated games

Id did the right thing with respect to doom3, making 2 different games. If this had been done with DX2 then it would likely have been a different game.

I critisise that the most as i was really really looking forward to it and was really dissapointed when it turned out to be a simplified Xbox game. You cant tell me that it was designed with both PC and Xbox in mind. The UI is the most obvious expample...

[Da Hoe]

I totally agree that DX2 was a console conversion for the PC. But I fail to see how you can blame the Xbox for that. Just why didnt they take the same approach as ID isnt the fault of the hardware, and the sad fact of the matter is companies, both developers and publishers make more money from console games than they do PC games.

I wish like you that DX2 was the next step up from DX. But I would whole heartedly disagree with you in blaming the Xbox. I would rather point my finger at the developers and publishers being greedy/lazy/bound by time constraints or budget or all 4 before I would even think of the hardware.