Scientology

[Brucelles]

I still think scientology takes the biscuit on the stupidness part. I don't understand how people can actually believe in it!

It certainly sounds dumber than most religions, but is it not really a religion?

I know that they want religious status, but does Scientology actually require belief in a God? It's a while since I studied it, and that was pretty cursorily, but I seem to recall that there's no creation myth and no deity to worship so it's a bit iffy as to whether it's a religion or not.

I know it is called a 'religion' by it's members, but by hubbard's own rationale, they would say that, wouldn't they? For the tax exemption.

Also Hubbard hates Christianity. He claimed that Jesus had never existed, but was implanted in humanity's collective memory by Xenu 75 million years ago, and that Christianity was an "entheta [evil] operation" mounted by beings called Targs (Hubbard, Electropsychometric Scouting: Battle of the Universes, April 1952). Some critics have claimed that one of the highest levels, OT VIII, tells initiates that Jesus was a pederast. I neither know nor care about Jesus' sexual practices, but I would guess that this is intended as an insult.

Also it's difficult to be a nonexistent pederast.

[Brucelles]

That lass of Tom Cruise's, Katie Holmes, is cute though.

[Slick]

Scientology is really dangerous, and it's like no other 'religion'. If it was just the fact that they choose to believe loopy ideas, I wouldn't mind. Even the science fiction writer/creator of scientology L Ron Hubbard was quoted as saying that he was going to make up a religion to make money.

The reason you see so many celebrities who are scientologists is because they have special 'celebrity centres' where they send celebrities to pamper them, in return for the celebrities simply stating they are scientologists, so they don't get a true vision of the 'church'. This makes vulnerable people think 'Tom Cruise/John Travolta/... is a scientologist, I can be successful as them if I join'.

However the 'church' is very backwards, it preys on the weak and vulnerable, removes them from their friends and family, and takes all of their money. The church also uses very forceful methods to silence anyone who criticises it, especially in America where they have scientologists in very influencial positions. There is a lot of evidence to suggest they have killed opponents and made their lives hell. The following link is a bit distrubing but highlights some of the cases scientology has been responsible for:

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

[chriswood_7]

However the 'church' is very backwards, it preys on the weak and vulnerable, removes them from their friends and family, and takes all of their money. The church also uses very forceful methods to silence anyone who criticises it, especially in America where they have scientologists in very influencial positions. There is a lot of evidence to suggest they have killed opponents and made their lives hell. The following link is a bit distrubing but highlights some of the cases scientology has been responsible for:

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

Are you a scientologist by any chance?

Heres my money *£££*

[chicken]

Are you a scientologist by any chance?

Heres my money *£££*

What makes you think he's a scientologist? The whole post is against scientology

Unless maybe you just glanced at it and assumed "The Church" meant the Christian Church rather than the Scientology Church, I can't see where your comment comes from?

[Dareos]

what would be really scary, is that if L Ron Hubbard was actually using the fake religion thing as a cover story so the unworthy skeptics like ourselves would never acheive enlightenment.


maybe its all true!

[autopilot]

from an atheists point of view, there's no difference between Christianity and Scientology in terms of its craziness.

That's would be me then. If anything, Scientology is in some ways more credible because its a clear cut system that has not been constantly reconfigured throughout history to suit the context of the time it was written in. And look how rich the church is/was.

If fact for me personally, Scientology adds extra weight to the argument that God does not exist. It's further proof that as humans we invent believe systems to suit our particular needs and desires.

[Kezzer]

That's would be me then. If anything, Scientology is in some ways more credible because its a clear cut system that has not been constantly reconfigured throughout history to suit the context of the time it was written in. And look how rich the church is/was.

If fact for me personally, Scientology adds extra weight to the argument that God does not exist. It's further proof that as humans we invent believe systems to suit our particular needs and desires.

Including evolution and the Big Bang?

[Slick]

There's a fundamental difference between real religions and Scientology though. Christianity teaches 'love thy neighbour', and to help other people, look at all of the work Christian charities etc are doing in the third world. The fact that you don't get told the basis of the scientology 'religion' till you've been in it for 15 years and given all your money is ridiculous, imagine it Christianity followed a similar model and you didn't find out about Jesus till then. Scientology is just classed as a religion to get tax exempt status, it has no desire to help people, just exploit them and take their money.

[autopilot]

Including evolution and the Big Bang?

Well there is tangible proof for that, take your religiously tinted glasses of for a sec (*) and take a look out of the window. Evolutionists don't have a hidden agenda either, unless you are into conspiracy theories (which if you are into the bible i guess you are). I don't consider evolution to be a religion, but it is an argument that's been used against it which holds no water. Just because lot of people study it and believe to does not make it a religion, although there are some parallels. People don't base there life on it or make decisions based upon it, not in the same way anyway. And the word 'system' is applied differently here. With religion it's people who have a system of believing in something. With science, it's the system they believe. That's a big difference.

But i think this has been covered in numerous large threads before.









* No offence intended matey

[Dareos]

religion, politics and taste in women

these 3 things should never be debated (without several pints beforehand)

[Kezzer]

Nah, I didn't mean scientists were also religious in terms of their theories. I was more talking about the evidence behind theory. The Big Bang was heralded as the best explanation yet of the creation of the universe, yet it's not a proven fact. Then of course people asked where the matter for the Big Bang came from? Which then ended up in discussion about infinite regression.

I'm just saying that humanity is going to constantly go around in circles when it comes to proof and purpose. The atheists will continue to slag off religious individuals purely based on the actions of the misguided people in the past. Then the religious people will continue to be content in their own bubble.

I dunno, I don't see the point in directing comments at either atheists or theists, it's just a never-ending circle of calamity, pain, suffering, abuse etcetera.

[autopilot]

Point well made Kezzer. Although i would contest that there is more proof for evolution than all the religion put together. And also that i have never heard any scientist say that there was without a doubt a Big Bang for sure.

"it's just a never-ending circle of calamity, pain, suffering, abuse etcetera." Yep, that's religion for you. The theory of evolution have been around for what, 100 years or so? How many war based upon "my god is better than yours" in those hundred years, and how many wars has been started over evolution?

Ok, yes i will stop there

Anyway... the tax dodge comment on Scientology is interesting, i always thought there must be something going on there.

[TeePee]

Yeh but Agent, from an atheists point of view, there's no difference between Christianity and Scientology in terms of its craziness. The only reason Christianity is more accepted is because it was the norm throughout time. Imagine if Christianity suddenly cropped up into society? Virgin woman gets impregnated by the Holy Ghost and hey presto the Son of God is born who then goes around performing various "magic" tricks on the people of towns, then gives his own life up because of it.

To a non-religious person that would sound nuts

This is true, and I don't consider scientology any less valid a religion than christianity.

I'd point out that the 'virgin woman' part of christianity comes from a mis-translation only. And maybe that's part of the problem.

[Byatt]

The South Park Episode 'S09xE12 - Trapped In The Closet' is all about Scientology.

This. Also, this.

Hopefully this BBC documentary, even with Sweeney's loss of control, will go some way to bringing this steaming turd of an organisation's shady activities more into the public eye.

Yeh but Agent, from an atheists point of view, there's no difference between Christianity and Scientology in terms of its craziness.

Just for reference, this is not necessarily true of all atheists (myself, for example) - in a couple of threads on other forums I frequent this particular question became a colossal derail, however, so I'll leave it at that.

[chriswood_7]

What makes you think he's a scientologist? The whole post is against scientology

Unless maybe you just glanced at it and assumed "The Church" meant the Christian Church rather than the Scientology Church, I can't see where your comment comes from?

I was offering my money out aaaarrrggghh

I went mad for a moment.