Scientology

[directhex]

as they say, truth is a three edged sword..

wasn't that ambassador kosh on babylon 5?

[Brucelles]

I've had a problem with the muslim teachings in that there rule somewhere that states along the lines of "If you are not a muslim - you don't deserve to live" which is basiclly a religious right to kill. or to paraphrase - none believers should be killed

Just to nitpick. The Koran actually states that Muslims should protect and aid other "people of 'The Book'". In Islam that book actually means the three books of the Abrahamic religions; The Torah, The Bible and The Koran. So Muslims aren't supposed to kill Christians, Jews or other Muslims.

I started to read the Koran when I was learning Arabic, but gave it up as too much like hard work, however I seem to recall that the rule is more like "Never kill a person of the book. Try not to kill anyone else either, but those book people are protected species, right?"

Back OT.

Where did L. Ron say he got the news of Xenu and the aliens from? I have read a lot of stuff about this lunatic organisation and it's teachings, all bollocks, but I have no idea where Hubbard got the word from. Most messiahs get the word from God, but L Ron didn't appear to believe in gods, so that won't wash.

Obviously it was a failed plotline for a Sci-Fi short story, but I would like to know how he sold this arse to the suckers.

[kalniel]

For goodness sake, why are people repeating themselves off topic? The christianity stuff was all hashed over in the appropriate thread, we don't need to just cut and paste into this one, it just lessens to value of the boards as a forum for proper discussion.

Back to scientology, I was actually disappointed in the panorama episode. I watched it almost as a matter of principal, but found it had very little body to it. Basically it seemed to be 'Lets talk to some ex-scientologists and relatives and get the thoroughly predictable response, and lets get shadowed by a small crew of scientologists trying to disrupt things'.

I didn't learn anything new, there was nothing more damaging or appeasing to scientology there.. there was just no real substance at all to the interviews. *shrugs*

[GoNz0]

i know the BBC reporter kicked off at the freak in his face, at the end of the day if that guy got that close to my face and started spouting that **** i would have dropped the nut on his nose...

bang out of order.

[Kezzer]

I briefly watched the BBC report, I can't believe how nuts that guy is going, it ends up being a full-on war between them.

[GoNz0]

a lesson in why not to push your beliefs on others.
scientology shot itself in the other foot after that report..
the more i read up on this the more amazed i am.. you have to pay them to find out the truth...

hmm i spy the next hitler..

[ikonia]

I guess the lack of access, the constant disruptions (eg: he couldn't even interview a guy without the scientology crew turning up and hijacking the interview).

even if that documentary had turned up that scientology had a cure for aids, cancer and atheletes foot, it would be hard to align your self with a group that behaves - on camera and in public in such an abbusive and poor attempted threatening way.

I found the program very interesting.

Brucells, - thank you for the correction, I was paraphrasing and going a bit from memory on that, I'll see if I can dig up the source I read it from for your own interest.

[[GSV]Trig]

wasn't that ambassador kosh on babylon 5?

yes, but it is true...

[doddsy]

yes, but it is true...

Was just about to point that out too, ah the religious writings of Straczinski (Probably not how you spell it)

Did anyone see a Louis Theroux show a couple of years ago on scientology? Basically he agreed to not call it a cult etc. and was allowed to talk to scientologists, it showed the folk that he interviewed in a really good light. They were all nice enough people and used the lessons they got from scientology to help them live their lives. Those people didn't give any money to the 'church'. It's the higher echelons that start to get worrying.

That Smith guy on the show last night was irritating! Like all 'religions' though it's the extremists that give it a bad name.

[TooNice]

Well, that's a side effect from the freedom of beliefs. I don't see Scientology pick up in China.
[Not that I see religious prosecution as a good thing]

[doddsy]

I just watched the rebuttal documentary, absolutely amazing editing. They go on through the whole thing about journalistic standards yet edit his interviews with celebrities so that all you see from him are his questions, seemingly attacking people. Sometimes you'd see their answers but then you wouldn't see what he said next, whether it be another question or an explanation. In fact you never see an explanation from the BBC reporter, the editing always cuts out before it. The only sentence that comes from his mouth that is unedited is when he loses it at the scientologist. Even then (yeah he's lost it) he's not shouting accusations, he's just trying to get the point accross that Tommy Davis (scientology guy) wasn't there from the start of the interview.

In the rebuttal they also go on about how they offered full access to the BBC but neglect to mention that one of the stipulations for this access is that the BBC reporter is not allowed to ask questions about what he wants to.

[[GSV]Trig]

The rebuttal pretty much puts the Panorma Report on its arse tbh.
Call it good editing or not but it does show a totally different side to the one that Panorama put across.

I have also had another reply from John on Youtube.

Re: Re: Re: Scientology
Please do! It's my favourite subject!

JW

http://media.freedommag.org/media/pa...ed-275kbps.swf

[doddsy]

Of course it does, it's made to be that way. The panorama report set out to explore the negative sides of scientology. The accusations that it's a cult, the accusations that it's tantamount to brainwashing, these are areas that scientology doesn't want people to explore.

While the panorama report wasn't totally without bias it was a lot more balanced than the rebuttal which to me was basiacally an attack. From the outset it set out to 'put the Panorama report on it's arse'.

[chicken]

TBH it doesn't really matter about the rebuttal. Panorama have raised what some people claim to be a dangerous cult into public discussion. If they are guilty of what people claim then there is more chance they will be caught out.

Also, the rebuttal may well weaken Scientology's side due to its obviously biased editing.

[[GSV]Trig]

Both sides are guilty of bias editing from where I'm sat, one issue that the Scientology rebuttal doesnt cover is the BBC guy being followed, I will be asking about that, the origins of Scientology, the "Pay as you go" aspects of Scientology and othr questions which may crop up from the answers I get or that are picked up here.

[[GSV]Trig]

John,

Just finished watching the "Rebuttal" video, certainly paints a totally different picture to the Panorama report..
While it was well edited and covered a lot of the alternate side to the Panorama report it doesnt touch on the people that were, or appeared to be following the BBC team.

As I am not a religious person as such I dont claim to be an expert in various religious teachings so feel free to point out mistakes or misinterpretations in the following, I will try to break each question up so as to make the answers easier.

As far as I understand it most if not all major religions have a religious leader, and a "God" type figure.
As far as I am currently aware there is no such "God" figure in Scientology, There was L Ron Hubbard, as I understand it the "Father" of Scientology and since his death a David Miscavige has "taken over" that role.

There was also some mention in the BBC report of an alien who put the bodies of other aliens into volcanoes and then blew them up, does this Xenu character reperesent the "God" figure?

Is it true that Scientologiosts are not allowed to know about this Xenu until they have paid to reach a certain level within Scientology.

Think that about covers the basics for now,

Thanks for your time..