Do you give to animal charities?

[Splash]

You make a good point (albeit possibly without meaning to) there Dareos. Free Will and Intelligent Thought are (allegedly*) what seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. That means that people are called upon to make decisions like this.

And I _still_ don't see how this is an either/or question. Perhaps the initial question should have been "do you give to humanitarian charities, and if not why not?"

Or am I wrong?

[IBM]

I started this thread with the hope that I'd be able to understand the motivation behind people who give money to animal charities over children's charities.

I'm not closer now than when I started. I can understand the appeal, and I can understand the psychology, what I can't understand is the actual choice.

Splash, you ask me why you have to make the choice, why you can't just donate to both. Because you're not donating to both, you're depriving the wellbeing of the person for the benefit of the animal. Every pound you give to the animal charity, regardless of whether you gave to a child charity of not, is a pound you're not putting towards the survival of a human boy or girl.

And I'm not angry, I'm passionate . I'm angry because I disagree with you and chase the point?

Again, I don't understand the choice. Animal vs. human. Seems like a no brainer to me, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Shake on it?

[kickstart 1]

He he, i am not religious but even God said to Noah , build an ark and save the animals !

[Cloudane]

Okay then, so to a certain extent you do put your money where your mouth is (when it's not busy yapping at other people for not living the same life as you).

However I don't think you should be attacking people who don't donate to the same causes as you do. There are many, many good causes out there and most/all of them deserve money, whether you agree with them or not.... that includes animals, you even said yourself that you don't like to see animals suffering but that's exactly what would happen if nobody donated to their cause....

There are different ones for kids too, you could just as easily say that people who donate to Great Ormond Street are depriving Ethiopians. Fact of the matter is donating to something - anything - is better than not donating at all, and there are far worse people you should be bitching at like murderers, thiefs, paedophiles, terrorists, and those who seek to exploit third world child labour/slavery (cough cough Nestl&#233 rather than those who help out the RSPCA.

Edit: I see above that you've now decided to try and be civil to the others in the thread, if so don't take this post with as much venom as it appears...

[IBM]

Well, this has deteriorated into a rant about people that give to animal charities being thoughtless and stupid and people who give to human charities being saintly and above reproach.

tbh, i think you have approached this subject with blinkers on, you are only replying to tidbits of posts that you feel you can respond to and are not approaching the issue as a whole.

Its juvenile, pathetic and quite frankly i find it insulting. I also consider it beneath the level of intelligence that you have so far shown on these forums and acheiving nothing more than a feeling of antagonism between people that do donate their time and money and sometimes their lives to the charity of their choice

You just live in your own little world, don't you?

Throughout the whole of this post I have not called anyone names, or resorted to insults against anything other than their opinion, which I respect, but do not understand. Comprehension was the intention of the debate, and if you can't deal with it on a mature level, then stay out of it.

The only juvenile action shown so far has been by you. I'm engaged in an informed, intelligent, ADULT debate amongst people of differing opinions. If your little feelings got hurt, go start another post complaining about how unfair the world is.

[Splash]

I started this thread with the hope that I'd be able to understand the motivation behind people who give money to animal charities over children's charities.

I'm not closer now than when I started. I can understand the appeal, and I can understand the psychology, what I can't understand is the actual choice.

I'll agree with you on that one

Splash, you ask me why you have to make the choice, why you can't just donate to both. Because you're not donating to both, you're depriving the wellbeing of the person for the benefit of the animal. Every pound you give to the animal charity, regardless of whether you gave to a child charity of not, is a pound you're not putting towards the survival of a human boy or girl.

Sorry to have to do this, but I'm calling bulls**t on that statement. My choice to donate to one charity does not deprive another charity. You're very passionate about Warchild, which is understandable however based on your argument me donating £30 a month to Warchild or donating £30 to Warchild and £30 to Greenpeace or whatever means I am depriving Warchild? I can see your argument, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. I make a small donation to each of my chosen charities on a regular basis because that way I can keep track of my finances in order that I don't end up on the streets at the mercy of a charity. I do not donate all of my disposable income every month, and neither do you.

Another way to look at it if you will - were I to donate to both MSF and AI would I be depriving either of them against donating to neither?

And I'm not angry, I'm passionate . I'm angry because I disagree with you and chase the point?

Anger is just another term for a particular type of passion. And as stated before I'm quite happy to sit and debate until the cows come home (or 5pm when I have to go meet the missus).

Again, I don't understand the choice. Animal vs. human. Seems like a no brainer to me, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Shake on it?

It's a no brainer to me too, we just have different opinions. Doesn't make either of us wrong. As for agreeing to disagree I'll be happy to. I'll be just as happy to chat about it til the aforementioned cows come home

[Stewart]

You just live in your own little world, don't you?

He does, its called Scotland.

[IBM]

Okay then, so to a certain extent you do put your money where your mouth is (when it's not busy yapping at other people for not living the same life as you).

However I don't think you should be attacking people who don't donate to the same causes as you do. There are many, many good causes out there and most/all of them deserve money, whether you agree with them or not.... that includes animals, you even said yourself that you don't like to see animals suffering but that's exactly what would happen if nobody donated to their cause....

There are different ones for kids too, you could just as easily say that people who donate to Great Ormond Street are depriving Ethiopians. Fact of the matter is donating to something - anything - is better than not donating at all, and there are far worse people you should be bitching at like murderers, thiefs, paedophiles, terrorists, and those who seek to exploit third world child labour/slavery (cough cough Nestlé) rather than those who help out the RSPCA.

Edit: I see above that you've now decided to try and be civil to the others in the thread, if so don't take this post with as much venom as it appears...

Cloudane, I've been nothing but civil in this post. Heated perhaps, but always civil, with perhaps a slight overabundance of incredulity and exclamation marks. And I haven't been preaching, as I've said before, I've been seeking understanding. I thought that maybe someone would be able to provide me with an insight into why they make that choice, but apart from the 'people give to what they know' all I've had is people getting defensive (interesting side note, people get defensive when they feel guilty, but I'm sure that's just coincidence ).

And people giving something IS better than people giving nothing. I just wanted to know why they would choose one over another. I selected a comparison charity that I felt was a ridiculous, but relevant. Turns out not as ridiculous as I thought.

[Mossy]

And as for domestic animal issues being caused by man, of course they are...although it's an interesting point, would you shoot the wild lion to protect the defenceless 'ickle wild calf?

OMG

probably not, do you see the cameramen on David Attenborough programs "diving in" to save the cub/wild calf when the lion takes it prey? This is sort of natural that the Lion would eat a cub/wild calf what else would it eat McDonalds? and by no way Humans cause this to happen, its called Food Chain

again a silly statement

[IBM]

Sorry to have to do this, but I'm calling bulls**t on that statement. My choice to donate to one charity does not deprive another charity. You're very passionate about Warchild, which is understandable however based on your argument me donating £30 a month to Warchild or donating £30 to Warchild and £30 to Greenpeace or whatever means I am depriving Warchild? I can see your argument, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. I make a small donation to each of my chosen charities on a regular basis because that way I can keep track of my finances in order that I don't end up on the streets at the mercy of a charity. I do not donate all of my disposable income every month, and neither do you.

Right, you only have a finite amount of money to give to charity. I'm of the opinion that 100% of that money should go to children's charities. Or charities dealing with the prevention of human suffering. Real base level, grass roots, type of charity. If you give 50% to animals and 50% to kids, then IMO you are denying that child of that money.
It's not as though you say 'well, I've given £30 to a kids charity, I'm not allowed to give to other charities, so I'll keep the other £30 in my pocket because I've already done my bit for kids'. You have money you give to charity, lets say £60 a month, and you decide to split that between animals and kids. So by making that choice, you're depriving the kids of £30.
Let's say £30 saved thirty lives (wouldn't that be nice), so by not donating that other £30, 30 kids die.

And that is oversimplified, but the rule still applies, just on a larger scale. So you chose animal over child. That's how I see it.

[Splash]

Cloudane, I've been nothing but civil in this post. Heated perhaps, but always civil, with perhaps a slight overabundance of incredulity and exclamation marks. And I haven't been preaching, as I've said before, I've been seeking understanding. I thought that maybe someone would be able to provide me with an insight into why they make that choice, but apart from the 'people give to what they know' all I've had is people getting defensive (interesting side note, people get defensive when they feel guilty, but I'm sure that's just coincidence ).

And people giving something IS better than people giving nothing. I just wanted to know why they would choose one over another. I selected a comparison charity that I felt was a ridiculous, but relevant. Turns out not as ridiculous as I thought.

People get defensive for many reasons more than feeling guilty (I'm not a psychologist, and I'm sure we have some on the board who can throw some of these reasons in if needed). People also get accusatory when they're trying to draw attention away from their own insecurities.

One question I'd like to ask you ibm, and I promise this is not in any way loaded.

Do you donate to any charity other than War Child?

As for ridiculous charities - if human nature wasn't so utterly screwed we'd probably need much fewer charities. The kids that Warchild seeks to assist are victims of that self same human nature.

[IBM]

People get defensive for many reasons more than feeling guilty (I'm not a psychologist, and I'm sure we have some on the board who can throw some of these reasons in if needed). People also get accusatory when they're trying to draw attention away from their own insecurities.

One question I'd like to ask you ibm, and I promise this is not in any way loaded.

Do you donate to any charity other than War Child?

As for ridiculous charities - if human nature wasn't so utterly screwed we'd probably need much fewer charities. The kids that Warchild seeks to assist are victims of that self same human nature.

Yeah, I also donate money to an orphanage for street kids in Indonesia, one for palestinian kids, and charities like Amnesty International, ones dealing with humanitarian crisis.

[Splash]

I see your point, but I can assure you that this is not how it works in the real world. I'm sure if I were to write an open letter to all the charities I support saying "I have x amount to donate to charity per month - would you prefer that I choose one of you to recieve it all, or would you prefer to all recieve your cut" I'd get the majority replying to the latter. And those that answered the former would no longer be recieving my donation on principle.

As for your answer to my question - are you not depriving Warchild by donating to those other charities? My stance is that you are not, but your argument would suggest that you are.


EDIT - I'm actually really enjoying this debate, but I'm hoping someone else will join in again as it's starting to look like a 2 man show...

[IBM]

I see your point, but I can assure you that this is not how it works in the real world. I'm sure if I were to write an open letter to all the charities I support saying "I have x amount to donate to charity per month - would you prefer that I choose one of you to recieve it all, or would you prefer to all recieve your cut" I'd get the majority replying to the latter. And those that answered the former would no longer be recieving my donation on principle.

I think you'd find they would all reply to the former, and provide you with a big long list of why you should do so, and what they could be doing with your money. These people who work for those charities, at least the involved ones, are so passionate they don't care about other people's charities. Like you they've made their stance for what they believe in, and believe that their cause is just and true *hums american anthem under breath*

I am depriving warchild with every penny i send elsewhere. Of course that's a huge overemphasis on the importance of my donation, but even so, I hate the fact that I haven't got millions to give. My burden.

I think I laid it on a bit thick for everyone else. I know that Kickstart and Tiggerai both gave up the ghost....to much stress for a friday afternoon. It's keeping me ticking over quite nicely though. I'm just waiting to see if Dareos is going to have a hissy fit

[mobo]

No.

People come 1st IMHO

[tiggerai]

I think I laid it on a bit thick for everyone else. I know that Kickstart and Tiggerai both gave up the ghost....to much stress for a friday afternoon. It's keeping me ticking over quite nicely though. I'm just waiting to see if Dareos is going to have a hissy fit

My final say has been PM'ed to you. I'm not under stress, never was.

(it's also friday afternoon and I've had 4 web updates to complete this afternoon too...)