imo the royal mail should not have to make a profit or compete. imo it provides a great service precisely because it is a service that does not need to be privatised. privatisation is a benefit to all services.
re: Pensions holidays - that is the root cause for most the shortfalls in public sector pension funds. Even then the shortfall is not that bad in alot of them. For example my public sector pension fund is overflowing with funds at the moment.
RMs pension deficit is between £4 and 6billion depending on who is giving out the figures.Originally Posted by YorkieBen
I recieved a letter this week from the pension fund telling me not to worry my pension is safe.
I think that means I should be worried.
Last edited by redlight; 02-08-2007 at 11:35 AM.
Royal Mail cannot discriminate which type of mail it handles. Unlike private companies.
Many companies took a "pension holiday" on the back of large share price increases in the early 90's but were private companies and not state run Institutions, so if criticism is due, then the current NuLabour government must take the blame. They were of course, far too busy giving money away to minority groups to achieve "multiculturalism", families with increased "goodie bags" to buy their loyalty and private landlords providing accommodation for the influx of uncontrolled immigration. And it certainly seems to work on some of the Voter's doesn't it!!
Private businesses have had to pick up many of these costs and in doing so shed workers where necessary to remain competitive.
The CWU and ASLEF are the last remaining Dinosaurs in an ever competitive Global market place, and in the UK where opportunities are everywhere for the entepreneur, this can only mean "Change or Die".
Both Unions continue to display a 70's attitude to modernisation that can only have one outcome. I very much doubt that the Union have been "bending over backwards" to avoid a strike, probably more like the new management drated in to make RM more competitive, are not the "soft touches" the old management used to be in conceding increased pay awards due to the threat of a strike.
I have a friend who worked for RM several years ago and was told that opting to not join the Union singled a worker out, and they were often cold shouldered, as the Union stewards made their lives misery and acted like the KGB!!
If modernisation of processes mean that the RM can handle twice as many letters and parcels, then in theory it will need twice as many distribution staff, who could have come from the same staff there today. By resisting change, in what can only be seen as a dogged determination to hang on to their past glories of domination in a marketplace where they were the only viable business, the Union will ensure, just like the British Car Industry, that our deliveries will be made by anyone but a British company!!
Do I have sympathy for the workers'?, of course I do, I have just been made redundant myself, as the company was sold to the Germans who inevitably want to recoup some of the purchase price by "rationalising", not only in the UK, but worldwide.
Privatised companies have been paying "inflation rate" pay rises for several years now in Unionised environments, and topping that up with "performance related" bonuses with the bar raised year on year for what constitutes "above average" performance.
The bottom line is that unless "modernisation" (and yes, that will include redundancies) is made soon, in a collaborative way between the Union and RM, it will be forced upon the Union in a few years time with the loss of an awful lot more jobs than the numbers being bandied about now!!.
Last edited by Dingo; 02-08-2007 at 11:45 AM.
The break up of Royal Mail was started by Thatcher and nothing to do with Labour.
The policies were put in place by a Tory government and like everything else that was state run it would cost the taxpayer billions to ever put it back together.
Her and her rotten policies to sell off our assets to fund the three million unemployed are the cause of the current crisis.
Royal Mail has never been allowed to compete on a level playing field because of restrictions placed upon it.
Because of the public uproar about her attempt to privatise it she had to do a u-turn.
So she then put in place the policies to strangle it of revenue and bring it to its knees and it would not look like the governments fault.
Labour inherited this along with all the other problems of privatising public sector services.
So what you have Labour do pump billions into bring them all back into the public sector.
Thats billions of our money which that witch and her cronies gave away in the first place.
As for joining the union you are talking out your proverbial.
Royal Mail actively encourages a person to join the union as RM will not negotiate with any single person only the union and you are told that at your first interview.
The only time I have seen any differentiating is with scheduled overtime as this was negiotated for union members as a guaranteed way to top up a weekly wage.
Royal Mail gives massive bonuses to its management.
RM gives bonuses to its workers which makes their wage up to a living wage. To them it is not a bonus. It was just a scam to cut their basic wage.
Dingo you should work for RM management you should fit right in.
With your attitude many parts of this country will be without any mail service because it is not profitable.
The Post Office was not set up to be profitable it was set up as a self financed public service.
Its ethos is to give a mail service to all parts of the UK at a universal price so the profitable parts subsdise the outlying loss making areas.
So your stunning idea is to allow private companies to cherry pick the profitable bits leave RM the rest but still expect RM to make a profit.
Oh and then blame the workers as its their fault for trying to protect this.
Is ther nothing safe from corporate greed.
Last edited by redlight; 02-08-2007 at 12:53 PM.
pollaxe (02-08-2007)
I was once in a similar job, with crap hours and no future, I did it for around six years (getting up and 1.30 am and sometimes not finishing until 12 hours later).getting up at 4am doesnt agree with me Davidi worked there for a summer and while i enjoyed the banter (some of it left me unable to breathe for laughing) and the excersise, going to bed at 8pm when all my mates were at the pub or hanging out someplace killed me.
The difference is I got off of my arse, retrained, and have never looked back since. I have no sympathy for anyone that uses strikes as a means of altering their job, it's just lazy, especialy when it's in a service industry that the general public count on.
If you're smart and can do something better then get on and do it. If you're not as clever, not well qualified, or just don't have high aspirations then realise the situation that you are in and accept it
I'm not fat and I'm not 40
Their on strike to stop their jobs being altered and to stop it becoming purely business and not a service.I was once in a similar job, with crap hours and no future, I did it for around six years (getting up and 1.30 am and sometimes not finishing until 12 hours later).
The difference is I got off of my arse, retrained, and have never looked back since. I have no sympathy for anyone that uses strikes as a means of altering their job, it's just lazy, especialy when it's in a service industry that the general public count on.
If you're smart and can do something better then get on and do it. If you're not as clever, not well qualified, or just don't have high aspirations then realise the situation that you are in and accept it
They are not lazy they are fighting for their jobs.
But that's the trouble isn't it.
Just like local councils where practices become restrictive, and everyone expects higher than average increases every year as well as juicy pensions, public "services" are always more costly and less effective than their privatised counterparts.
The company I worked for were National in this country and had to provide nationwide coverage, but it was not acceptable to the customers to keep hiking prices because they had an 80% market share and provided to outlying areas, they had to be proactive in their approach to cost cutting and changes in distribution and production practices where required to retain the cost v benefit to the customer in order to retain business. And yes, that has resulted in making me and many others redundant, but that's life, the real world as it exists now.....not as it was in the "Winter of Discontent" when public sector workers' were so demanding and restrictive that they managed to bring the country to it's knees by striking at every opportunity because they didn't like the way it was being run!!
RM, just like the NHS (as Labour are finding to OUR [the taxpayers'] cost, is a huge black hole where money can be poured every day in ever increasing amounts due to poor practices and inefficiencies.
Private sector workers' are far more realistic about the "real world" than their public sector counterparts.
Of course, the best thing for RM to do would be to sell itself to the workers' for £1, and let them run the company as they see fit with no Government backing..............do you think they would manage a whole month without imploding?
Sometimes itslike talking to a brick wall
The are not subsidised by the government the government takes a great cut of the profit RM makes.
RM makes a profit which is ploughed back into the business.
RM is hampered by law as to what it can and cant do i.e it has to give a universal service to the public.
No private company has such restrictions this allows them to cherry pick.
Now all you Torys with your big ideas go out and stick it in your manifesto that you are going to dismantle the mail service and all the rural communities can do without because there is no way a private company would drive up a mile long dirt track to deliver MR Farmers birthday card from his mum.
You have done enough damage by franchising off all the Crown offices and money making town P.O.s and now with no profit from them there is not enough money to subsidise the rural P.O.s.
Stop thinking of this as another scheme for money grabbing businesses to make a killing and think of it as a self sustaining service for the good of everybody not just the greedy few.
people seem to forget this:
when you go on strike YOU DONT GET PAYED!.
understand that there is obviously more to this then the media tells you, these people are putting there lifes on the line for a reason, missing mortgage payments etc.
its a big thing.
i was forced to go on strike last year due to the union, it worked out well in the end but you have to understand the stress it cause the workers and their familys.
btw:
i dont work for royal mail!.
sorry for the confusion
COUGH!! COUGH!!
Wednesday 18th October 2006
The current level of state funding for post offices is £150 million a year, but this is due to run out in 2008. An announcement on future funding has been promised by the Department of Trade and Industry before Christmas, but it is thought unlikely the Government will be willing to subsidise the whole network, which is losing around £3m a week.
Due to payments by direct payment introduced in 2003 is the reason for losing PO's as their profitabilty went down the drain....and who were their main customer giving them their revenue, you guessed it, the Government!!.
and then we have these.........
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/news/buisness/government-bails-out-royal-mail-$440166.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/post/story/0,,1777710,00.html
Oh, of course, it was a loan so that the Government can make profits...which would indicate that they are attempting to be prudent with Taxpayers' money. And please remember the man who would have made the decision to have direct payments made is the same man who now resides at No. 10, and not a Tory Government...... are you forgetting just how long NuLabour have been in Government now??
You are right about this though....but private companies CHOOSE to give that type of service to their customers by restructuring their businesses and cost cutting exercises so that they win contracts and remain competitive in the Modern World ,without the need for state funding to the tune of £150million a year!!!
The PO is not RM and it is the post office that is recieving the money to keep sub post offices open.
That is as I said before they have franchised the profitable ones off.
To make it clearer Royal Mail,Post Office Counters and Parcelforce are seperate businesses.
They were split apart to sell off seperately.
The Royal Mail was allowed to plough its own money back into the business
"Royal Mail said operating profits in the last financial year, calculated under new accountancy standards, were £355m.
All its business improved their financial performance as profits rose by £53m despite a decline in the amount of mail delivered."
Yes 10 years in and still picking up the pieces.
Luckily theres enough of us who remember the last time the scum were in power.
Enough of us to stop them wrecking the country again.
I was working for the RM back on the last strike, appx 10yrs ago.
I stood on the picket line, knowing i wasnt getting paid, next to the bin with the fire burning.
The scabs that did work, had there cars put on jacks, most of these were Jehovahs witenesses.
No damage was done to the cars, the driving wheels were just left slightly of the ground.
Well it amused us intensely.
BTW I worked for RM Tweedale, LDO, Telford.
I have posted 5 parcels RM, knowing there on strike, I am still supporting them by sending mail still, i tried to get a Special delivery, but there not guaranteeing them over this period, so i couldnt get a few freebies either, apparently Weds there were over 80million items waiting to be sorted and posted.
Always Busy
Hey, you introduced that particular option into the mix because YOU thought it was relevant, don't flame me for responding, or disproving your irrational debate!!
Like any sensible businessman would do....well done Gordon!!
And I trust, that in future responses, you will not confuse the difference in trying to make a point!!
There you go, it's the Hawthorne effect (read up on it) where businesses put in the spotlight improve dramatically.....simply because they ARE in the spotlight!!
Are we talking about the Unions in 1978/1979 or the Conservative Government who acquired power in 1979...... and began this Country's revival to where it is today (helped obviously by NuLabour adopting Tory policies) as the Premier country in Europe in terms of GDP and influence.
Perhaps Jacques Chirac would have been your choice of Prime Minister for this countr,y as his views appeared consistent with your own, banality, at it's best, is better than progress.!!!!!
Last edited by Dingo; 03-08-2007 at 12:02 AM.
I can understand why there striking, BUT it still bites that I've got two parcels stuck in the system somewhere for over a week now with no sign of them turning up this week.
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