Madness? This is London!

[TheAnimus]

the US is also a piooner of the gang culture, which often seams to devide down racist lines.

The problem with racial profiling, is you risk furhter alianating the target population. With the case of our first teen peddle by shooting a few months back, the police know certain memebers of the community know who did it, but they've closed ranks. When the ghetto population don't trust the poooo-leice (trying to be cool and ***k the police sounding), you have to tread softly.

[arbitor]

As said I think this country being quite small in comparison to its population.. that it would not be sensible to legalize guns, as the chav culture in this country has gone wild. And at the moment, these nasty groups of people, be it from London,Liverpool,Newcastle Manchester or wherever would stop solving thier problems with the odd gun and knife and just all carry 9mm pistols around;
Which you simply cant have with the type of people we have in this couintry at the moment, that seem hell bent on being the next scarface..

I blame repetitive rap music that constantly goes on about it.. and poor schooling and weak minds.

Its not just black people, Im sure that when it is black people its publicsied more.. we have had a few white males that have gone loopy and killed lots of people, but normally not in the same way that your typical gang murder would be carryed out..

This is going to sound hugely racist,I work very near Kingston university and the town obviously is full of students, now its not an unpleasant area at all, but most of the black males dress like you would expect to see in south central LA, they talk stupid using huge amounts of slang.. and come Friday night all start fighting on the street, now because its a Uni half of them are not idiots, but its just the general gene that needs them to act, walk and talk VASTLY different to your average 20 year old white male..

Which is worrying, because what i don't get is why there is this need not just to talk properly and be slightly normal.. now you could say this is just because its near London and has many people from London there.. that would be partly true... but even in central Hampshire where on the whole theres very few black people in your normal a level college, in fact there was about 5 in my year.. then you go to tech college in Basingstoke and your back to it again, thee whole gang culture and the slang.. its ridiculous i tried to convert a few but they were not having it..

It seems that the vast majority don't want to work hard just want to have a clique and cause trouble, which in Basingstoke at night can be a rife...

well thats me, i don't have time for said people that talk like that, and think that it speaks volumes when you look at areas, i lived in Petersfield and the town had a handful of colored people in and barring your odd theft you could walk anywhere.. Now Basingtoke albeit alot bigger was very mixed race and you wouldn't feel safe walking at night in some parts....

[excalibur2]

Aye, shame about the murders really. Still, I suppose as you are being shot in the face, you have the comfort of knowing noone is going to steal your iPod.

Phew, eh?


Eh?

We have had leftie liberal PC wishy washy attitude to crime and laws etc for about 40 years and things are not improving, so the idea/thinking is a failure as you can't have the same system for a homogeneous society as for a multi-ethnic society until the ethnics dissolve into the majority homogeneous society.
Does anyone have info that a multi-racial city is more peaceful than a homogeneous city?

So we have seem to have wandered from "a proper right to self defence" and " the right to tackle criminals without being taking to court" and "an Englishmans home is his castle"..............and BTW I don't want any guns in our society, but of course realise farmers and gun clubs need weapons.

[JPreston]

AARGH!!!! THE SECRET LIBERAL CONSPIRACY RUNS THIS COUNTRY

It all makes sense now. That why we can be arrested as terrorists for eating cake near parliament, and our DNA stored forever as a result - damn those liberal authoritarian loony left communist fascists!

Think about it for a second, this policy is regarding stop and search. Stop and search has almost nothing to do with preventing gun crime, unless you happen to stop and search an armed but nevertheless mysteriously cooperative youth on the way to commit a murder, but community involvement and information does.

And anyway, if we were interested in hearing an informed opinion on the effect of stop and search on black communities why not seek the advice of people who are a) police and b) black? Like the NBPA? Who obviously conduct some debate on the subject as it affects their professional and personal lives on a daily basis and the outgoing president's personal views differ from the policy of the association.

Or maybe we could all just parrot an opinion based on our own gut instincts, either could work I suppose

[Richdog]

It is a brave person who trespasses in Texas...one Japanese tourist knocked on a door because his car had broken down and was shot dead and the home owner was found not guilty of anything in court.

Sorry... are you using that as a positive example of liberal gun legislation? I seriously hope not...

[IBM]

Or maybe we could all just parrot an opinion based on our own gut instincts, either could work I suppose

Thanks. I will.

You think the NBPA aren't going to have their own prejudices?

[excalibur2]

Sorry... are you using that as a positive example of liberal gun legislation? I seriously hope not...

For info and anyway that's what the Texans want and vote for, but they do have serious crime problem with Mexicans moving in.

[Richdog]

For info and anyway that's what the Texans want and vote for, but they do have serious crime problem with Mexicans moving in.

The difference is America is and always HAS been a gun culture... the populatoin are used ot them, they are part of society for good or ill.

In contrast, you suddenly allow the UK population to have a gun and you will see chaos ensue... especially amongst the younger, stupider element of society.

[excalibur2]

The difference is America is and always HAS been a gun culture... the populatoin are used ot them, they are part of society for good or ill.

In contrast, you suddenly allow the UK population to have a gun and you will see chaos ensue... especially amongst the younger, stupider element of society.

We used to have freedom to own guns once, in fact the US constitution is based on many of our freedoms and laws. With the Russian revolution and communism sweeping Europe, British governments didn't trust the pop and passed laws to restrict the public ownership of weapons and the difference between the US and the UK is..............the British government have increasing restricted any sort of weapons and become a "nanny" who tell us "don't worry we (the police, the state) will defend and protect you"...............................so sad for joe public it's not working.

[Lucio]

Why shouldn't the Police stop and search whomever they suspect? After all, if the person hasn't done anything wrong, it takes a few minutes and then it's all over.

[G4Z]

As said I think this country being quite small in comparison to its population.. that it would not be sensible to legalize guns, as the chav culture... snip.

Look I do not disagree with the thrust of your post here and I am not trying to be a grammar nazi but you would come off a whole lot more convincing if you would speak properly yourself...

[iranu]

I find it sad that it's young, black males that are more likely to be the victims of gun crime perpetrated by young, black males.

Ironically this is often ignored by "community leaders" and others who claim to represent or have the best intentions for a certain group when they claim victimisation usually as a result of the police using more stop and searches and/or racial profiling.

[TooNice]

Why shouldn't the Police stop and search whomever they suspect? After all, if the person hasn't done anything wrong, it takes a few minutes and then it's all over.

I suppose it comes down to 'suspect on what basis'. If they've received information that that suggests someone is going to commit a crime, then by all mean. But if it's the 'pinky' that tells them so, then the question may be raised as to whether their intuition is not being discriminating on no basis.
Having said that, I do not think that profiling (including racial) is without basis. It's probably as scientific as you will get in order to increase the chances of finding who you are looking for (i.e. someone carrying a gun/knife).

[arbitor]

Look I do not disagree with the thrust of your post here and I am not trying to be a grammar nazi but you would come off a whole lot more convincing if you would speak properly yourself...

Sorry was a long post and i was hungover

[Lucio]

I suppose it comes down to 'suspect on what basis'. If they've received information that that suggests someone is going to commit a crime, then by all mean. But if it's the 'pinky' that tells them so, then the question may be raised as to whether their intuition is not being discriminating on no basis.
Having said that, I do not think that profiling (including racial) is without basis. It's probably as scientific as you will get in order to increase the chances of finding who you are looking for (i.e. someone carrying a gun/knife).

But they do have a basis for discriminating, they're actually out there and getting to see what people from differing social groups do to each other and which one's they see on a regular basis committing offences.

To give you an example, I used to have my mates over most Friday nights and come about 1am, had to drive them home. Now to begin with I didn't attract any attention because I was driving my g.f's Skoda at the time, the second I picked up a 2nd hand Golf I got pulled 4 times in 4 weeks!

In the end I asked the copper why I'd been pulled over so many times (given I hadn't changed the way I drive and wasn't doing anything wrong) and it came down to the fact he saw 5 lads loaded into a Golf at 1am, and as such he knew from his experiences that they tended to speed or drive without insurance. Didn't begrudge the fact because I could imagine it happening easily (after all, we've all seen an overloaded Golf speeding at one point or another!) and I think it's perfectly acceptable for them to work from their own gut instincts because that's all you can ask of any human being doing the job.

[arbitor]

But they do have a basis for discriminating, they're actually out there and getting to see what people from differing social groups do to each other and which one's they see on a regular basis committing offences.

To give you an example, I used to have my mates over most Friday nights and come about 1am, had to drive them home. Now to begin with I didn't attract any attention because I was driving my g.f's Skoda at the time, the second I picked up a 2nd hand Golf I got pulled 4 times in 4 weeks!

In the end I asked the copper why I'd been pulled over so many times (given I hadn't changed the way I drive and wasn't doing anything wrong) and it came down to the fact he saw 5 lads loaded into a Golf at 1am, and as such he knew from his experiences that they tended to speed or drive without insurance. Didn't begrudge the fact because I could imagine it happening easily (after all, we've all seen an overloaded Golf speeding at one point or another!) and I think it's perfectly acceptable for them to work from their own gut instincts because that's all you can ask of any human being doing the job.

Yes but thats nothing compaired to stopping peple because they are black..

not in the same boat tbh, discriminating because you have a loud exhaust is one thing that people will accept, but i cant see people being so willing to stop if they are stopped because they are black.. lol