Young Drivers are idiots.

[usxhe190]

But poor performance from brakes or tyres is virtually never the cause of accidents. They are caused for the vast part I'd have thought by things which have not changed in 50 years such as not being able to see around corners, and poor judgement/reactions. If you can solve those things then I agree with raising the limit as a matter of course.

yep the problem is:

1. cars have improved alot in the last 50 years.

2. road design have NOT improved in the last 50 years.

i.e. should improve road design.

[staffsMike]

wasn't it proved that you merely need to change lanes to fool averaging cameras recently?

[dangel]

they do - if you're good, they won't lower the limit to 50 because you have the nerve to be on the m40

personally, i'd like to see more average speed cameras - they won't punish you for letting the needle dip in the wrong direction at the wrong second, but they'll help to eliminate dangerous use of the bmw lane

And I don't. Not because I don't want to see the >100 club brought to justice, but because it really isn't helping 'safety' (which after all is what we are supposed to call the darn camera things now) as the driver has ever more paranoia forced on them and yet more distractions from the road. I'd rather seem them convert all the _motorway_ cameras to 'distance' cameras because inherently it's going to increase the available stopping distances for drivers far more effectively. The funny thing is that people still slam on the anchors when they see an averaging camera so the effect seems little different.

Of course NONE of this is anywhere near as good as what I had when i started driving (18 years back) - humanoid enforcement units (otherwise known as road police) who would pull you over (and taking into account the conditions) either warn you or give you a ticket. This is stunningly effective (but costs money rather than makes it) as it tends to educate in the context of the incident (rather than a bill two weeks later though the front door). I'm mad obviously.

Honestly, we've really not made any great strides in tackling bad driving - instead we've bunged up thousands of cameras and turned our towns/cities into urban assault courses (which yet again means the drivers distracted by endless road furniture/slaloms and buggers the environment too). We've made the test a lot harder but once you've passed you can do pretty much anything you like - so long as you don't.. speed. Would you like the other driver to be watching the dial or you?

Silly isn't it?

[usxhe190]

dangel, this is how our governments like (edit- love) to solve problems - i.e. when there is a problem, use the stick approach and whack the public until they bleed!

[dangel]

dangel, this is how our governments like to solve problems - i.e. when there is a problem, use the stick approach and whack the public until they bleed!

Yup. Worse - it's a blunt instrument approach which doesn't really tackle the underlying problem.

It's bit like the mobile thing - originally this was covered under law but people ignored it. So they introduced a new law speficially for it. Then people ignored it. Then they introduced a tougher law - then people ignored it. Why? Cos you're so unlikely to get caught why care?

Governments rarely have the nuts to do the right thing - and the current one is worst than most in that respect.

[usxhe190]

Yup. Worse - it's a blunt instrument approach which doesn't really tackle the underlying problem.

yep, and then the smart guys in the government comes back with a bigger stick!... its amazing logic!

[kalniel]

So instead of moaning about it why aren't you doing anything to change it?

[directhex]

So instead of moaning about it why aren't you doing anything to change it?

active protest, by speeding! he's fighting for freedom!

[Salazaar]

Of course the other side of this problem which no-one's addressed yet is that people frequently just drive too damned close to the next car! I know it's not the major cause but if you have to slam on the brakes you want a good amount of stopping distance.

I remember hearing about a horrific accident near where I live a while back where a family in a car was crushed between two lorries, I couldn't help but think in the back of my mind 'well she really didn't want to be driving that close between the two in the first place...'.

[Salazaar]

active protest, by speeding! he's fighting for freedom!

I'm cycling from now on!

Ah, no wait I did that and I got hit (not my fault, asshole driver), it hurt.

[usxhe190]

kalniel, i already try to minimise the stick effect on me (i.e. in this context, looking constantly at my speedo, not going over the limit, not going into congestion zone, not going onto those yellow lines on an intersection, not parking at the wrong place, not driving into bus lane, etc).

i try to cycle when i can - but it is pretty dangerous
i try not using a car - but it soemtimes takes long and is more expensive to catch public transport

As for trying to change/persuade the attitude of the stick wielding guy, i tried talking to him (i.e. complained, sent them a letter about driver education/road design/quality) but the guy really only wants to do it this way.

only other way i can think of is to push the guy aside so i become that guy.

[StevenF]

So I saw my chance, a truck as we were going up hill, so I indicated checked mirror pulled out and executed a perfect over taking manuver.. however it seems that the lorry wasn't exactly limited and as we headed downhill he quickly hit 70mph. I did what I thought was best and accelerated to 80+mph got round him and pulled in, and then back to 70. Passed on that test, so I think your idea that its a rigid limit and you must not travel 1mph more or your a maniac speeder is just wrong.

I wouldn't have though you would've passed doing that - For one you accelerated past the lorry then pulled in front of him and slowed down, really getting you nowhere.

[directhex]

I wouldn't have though you would've passed for though. For one you accelerated past the lorry then pulled in front of him and slowed down, really getting you nowhere.

instant fail under modern standards

[Mblaster]

Tell you what Hex, if I came across you in the outside lane doing 70, I would bloody well undertake you!

Middle/outside lane hoggers are the bane of our motorways, I mean I have no issue with people doing 70mph on the motorway (I do it myself most of the time because I am tight on fuel costs) but once you have done your overtake you should be getting back in the left hand lane. Hell even if I do decide I am in a hurry and cane it a bit, I would always pull back into the left hand lane.

That's the biggest annoyance for me on the motorway, it's fine in the left and middle lane, but going at 70mph in the right hand lane is just too slow and you're causing congestion.

Instead of saying the national speed limit is a flat rate of 70 for cars, it would say something like you must not drive faster than an appropriate speed for the conditions and the equipment at your disposal. Would be simple enough to have as a law if they wanted.

Because they'd never be able to convict someone on such a fuzzy law, which is so open to interpretation.

personally, i'd like to see more average speed cameras - they won't punish you for letting the needle dip in the wrong direction at the wrong second, but they'll help to eliminate dangerous use of the bmw lane

If they introduced average speed cameras all over the motorways, it'd force people to slow down, increasing the amount of traffic on own already busy roads, making congestion worse. No thanks. (Slower speeds = more time spent on roads = more cars on the road at any one time).

I would be glad to see average speed cameras brought in on motorways if they increased the speed limit to 85-90mph, but I can't imagine them ever increasing a speed limit again.

Even the police don't bother pulling people over at <90mph on the motorway, passed plenty of police cars at 85-90, and they did nothing, because 70mph is not longer a reasonable speed limit. They are just scared to up it because it would encourage some people to go even further over the speed limit.

[noTHINGface]

That's the biggest annoyance for me on the motorway, it's fine in the left and middle lane, but going at 70mph in the right hand lane is just too slow and you're causing congestion.

...Isn't that the national speed limit?

[Zadock]

I have to say that I completely disagree with the statement that young drivers are idiots. Where I live, in deepest darkest wiltshire, its the older folk. We have what I call "40mph merchants" around here, these are people (usually men 45+) who travel at 40mph regardless of that the speed limit is... so you spend your time poodling along behind one of them at 40 in the national area and then you come to a town or village, I slow down 40mph merchant carries on or in the more amusing circumstances accelerates up to abotu 50! maybe its just where I live but this happens all the time especially at night if your moving from an area thats no street lit to one that is all of a sudden the old bugger behind the wheel can see!! and gets more confident, and breaks the law. Might I add these people also tend to own 4x4s but thats more to do with the Rahh infestation we have in this part of the world, they need them so they can tow the horse box or stow all their shotguns in the boot.