Young Drivers are idiots.

[Howard]

Actually my bad - i did mean hatchings with a solid white line (my apologies) which does attract six points. But sure, box junctions - we've all been caught on one even though the law says you shoudn't enter unless you can exit. But stuff happens which you can't always take account of - and hence we need reasoning and (dare I say it) common sense.
The point is that although you need rules of the road they simply aren't as black and white as some would have you believe. I suspect most of us know the difference between taking the pee and applying common sense. This is what a policeman can distinguish and this is why nobody here would doing anything but avocate putting more of them on the roads versus dumb-ass speed cameras which do bugger all to lower the death rate.

I agree. Speed limits on the motorway being one of those things where discretion is best.

And I disagree with directhex's attitude that going over 70mph, particularly in lane 3, is bad. It does just hold the traffic up if you overtake someone doing 66mph in the middle lane, as it takes far longer to do it and causes those behind who wish to make more progress (And no they're not all pushy BMW drivers doing 120mph, mostly mere mortals like dangel and I for instance who are doing 80 or 85mph safely with plenty of awareness and space around us) to have to brake, etc. which has a bad knock-on effect.

[kalniel]

So actually you're arguing for a minimum speed in lane three which is greater than the current national speed limit?

If you and dangel have allowed enough space you won't need to break if someone is overtaking at 70 - you can just ease off until you have the space to accelerate again.

[dangel]

Sigh.. no he's not. But again it degenerates into the focus on speed rather than dangerous driving.

Anyway.. speaking of slow overtaking and I alone in hating bloody lorries? Almost every day i sit behind one that takes 5-6 MILES to overtake (we've got some major freight routes out here) which (i'm led to believe) is illegal but of course who's to know? They were trialling disallowing this during rush hour in this region but i've not heard of it since.

[kalniel]

Sigh.. no he's not. But again it degenerates into the focus on speed rather than dangerous driving.

I'm not the one complaining that our current laws on speed are wrong. I think they should stay as they are and we should look into ways of tackling the more serious problems of lack of judgement and driving unsafely for the conditions.

[dangel]

I'm not the one complaining that our current laws on speed are wrong. I think they should stay as they are and we should look into ways of tackling the more serious problems of lack of judgement and driving unsafely for the conditions.

Then - in the main - I agree with you

[Howard]

So actually you're arguing for a minimum speed in lane three which is greater than the current national speed limit?

.

No, I just think using a speed camera to catch someone doing 75mph perfectly safely, is crap. I've overtaken policecars at ~80mph before, and they don't care. They can see it's perfectly safe. If I was doing 80mph right up someone's backside flashing them furiously then yes they would have pulled me over.

Oh and even if you're leaving the correct 2-second gap, you'll probably still have to brake lightly to avoid getting dangerously close to a slower person appearing infront, even if you don't actually hit then

[directhex]

what's your stopping distance at 80-85?

would you push for upping village speed limits to 40 or 50, since your new cars can stop on a sixpence?

[Howard]

what's your stopping distance at 80-85?

Much less than a 30 year old car, or a 15 year old Ford Fiesta 1.0 with 125mm wide economy tyres and worn out brakes would be from 70.

would you push for upping village speed limits to 40 or 50, since your new cars can stop on a sixpence?

No, hence me saying "speed limites on the motorway..."

[directhex]

Much less than a 30 year old car, or a 15 year old Ford Fiesta 1.0 with 125mm wide economy tyres and worn out brakes would be from 70.

so you'd apply a new 85 limit to, what, only german cars? or would you like to see the 1.0 fiesta behind you at 85?

No, hence me saying "speed limites on the motorway..."

good thing there are never accidents on the motorway

[Howard]

so you'd apply a new 85 limit to, what, only german cars? or would you like to see the 1.0 fiesta behind you at 85?

No, where did I say up the speed limit to 85? I said use less speed cameras and more discretion.

good thing there are never accidents on the motorway

Nope, not that many where speed is the main contributing factor.

[Salazaar]

what's your stopping distance at 80-85?

would you push for upping village speed limits to 40 or 50, since your new cars can stop on a sixpence?

Just to complicate matters.... Although I'm generally in favour of upping the limit on motorways to 80, I also think that more schemes should be put in place to reduce speeds in small villages etc. These can range from speed humps/islands to removing road markings (this has been proven to slow traffic in town centres) and setting up zones where pedestrians are actually given right of way over cars.

[dangel]

Much less than a 30 year old car, or a 15 year old Ford Fiesta 1.0 with 125mm wide economy tyres and worn out brakes would be from 70."

..that's 2 feet from the car in front whilst the driver is texting his mate.

[Howard]

..that's 2 feet from the car in front whilst the driver is texting his mate.

[dangel]

I see it every day - and worse.

But of course, only SPEEDING flipping matters.
duuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[directhex]

I see it every day - and worse.

But of course, only SPEEDING flipping matters.
duuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrr

let's say you're traveling at 85. you don't have the full 2 second gap suggested by the highway code, but you've got places to be, damnit! person in front brakes. how fast are you going to be going, compared to them, when you hit? how much force on you and your passengers?

now do the sums at 70

it's not about speed, it's about limiting damage when people are stupid. it's the same reason for speed limits in towns - because when the **** hits the fan, the slower you're going the more likely there are to be survivors

[Howard]

now do the sums at 70

it's not about speed, it's about limiting damage when people are stupid. it's the same reason for speed limits in towns - because when the **** hits the fan, the slower you're going the more likely there are to be survivors

Precisely! Which is why more police patrolling, and less cameras to catch the innocent (let's face it, those with "places to be" 2ft off someone's bumper are just gonna feverishly whack on the anchors when they see the camera, then gun it after passing it aren't they) and education regarding courtesy/lane hogging etc, and lorries limited to the inside lane only would be nice.