For you newish Uni people

[BlackDwarf]

......So saying I'm a music student would get you a little more irate then?

[TheAnimus]

The problem is, its those from the poorest backgrounds that will be most detered by any form of debt or financial impediment. They will simply see the merrits of instant cash, and regretabbly (from odds alone) earn a lot less, and have a lower degree of job security, than if they could afford uni.

But then again you don't want to have the situation where people are bullied into staying to work for an employer because of a golden hello and nievity.

I'm worried by a company a friend works for who offer intrest free car loans, so that if you wish to leave, you have to repay the full amount (rather than pay the staff a decent wage so they could afford the intrest themselfs). The more trust you need in the loan provider?

[Pyrii]

Considering I come from a poor background. Before going on my degree my mother hasn't worked and I was on disability/jobseekers. And I'm glad I found an oppertunity out of the rut I was in. I know what I want and I want to work hard for it, I'm worried about the hage debt I'll have in the end and whether I'll EVER pay it off. But at least I'll have a degree and some new skills behind me. Even if it is one of those "trashy degrees".

I finish this year, and might move onto a different Ba/BSc if I work hard enough. But I'd like to not have to rely on living with my sole parent.

Oh, and I'm working while studying thank you. I think Blitzen's assuming every student just lives off loans of inherited money, some of us have to earn the money to study while studying.

[Lucio]

The problem is, its those from the poorest backgrounds that will be most detered by any form of debt or financial impediment. They will simply see the merrits of instant cash, and regretabbly (from odds alone) earn a lot less, and have a lower degree of job security, than if they could afford uni.

Trouble is, our society isn't in any way setup to provide instant social justice, it's at odd's with the idea of a capatalist state!

Myself, I've attempted university twice, first time around I didn't finish because I simply couldn't get a job in the area because I left it too late (only got in through clearing, by the time accomodation was sorted and paid for via my loan, the jobs had gone). This was studying Computer Science & Statistics because it was what I was good at.

Second time around, was as a nursing student, again I couldn't complete the course because me and my partner couldn't afford for us both to remain on the course, and it'd been her dream to finish. This was a real shame because quite frankly, nursing is a much needed profession, but even working a 60 hour week between the experience on the ward and working part time in a care home, it wasn't working out.

Do I feel let down though by the government? Nope! The first course was my choice, I borrowed cash to get started at a fair rate and it wasn't the government's fault I couldn't find a job! Second time around, yes, the bursary granted to cover the "work" we did in the hospitals was small, but ultimately I chose to keep running a car and I think that's part of the costs that tipped it over the edge.

[Wyoming]

I don't think it is right for the government to choose what is a "good" or "useful" degree and only fund those. I think all degrees should be funded by those willing to pay [and that doesn't necessarily mean the student] and not by tax which we can not pretend is willingly given, the money is taken to fund all degrees.

For professions such as medicine and engineering, which many of you seem to consider to be "good" then employers could offer to pay the degrees cost in return for the graduate's work for a specified amount of time. Of course this would not be limited to any type of degree and other organisations such as charities could pay for the cost of a degree.

[Lucio]

For professions such as medicine and engineering, which many of you seem to consider to be "good" then employers could offer to pay the degrees cost in return for the graduate's work for a specified amount of time. Of course this would not be limited to any type of degree and other organisations such as charities could pay for the cost of a degree.

This happens already, the NHS does fund part of a medical or nursing qualification, the big issue would become, what happens if someone stops training? Who pays then for someone who drops out because they're either crap at the course or just don't get on with it?

[Wyoming]

The cost of the degree could be paid upon completion. That would seem to eliminate that problem.

[streetster]

perhaps there can be a list of 'proper' degrees, and you get a grant if you are doing a degree that is actually worthwhile and beneficial...

if you are doing a mickeymouse degree, or humanities-based one, you only get a loan...


tho perhaps that would take the 'fun' out of uni?

[Wyoming]

I'm planning to study Economics in september. Is that a "proper" degree? Many word argue it's a humanity and others would argue it's a science. Subjects like mine are ones that would be very hard to "put in a box."

By giving grants for specific subjects the government tells us what to do, in the same way it trys to prevent us smoking by taxing tobacco. I don't want the goverment to tell me what to do; and I fear that there has been an increase in this intervention in recent years. What we need is smaller goverment, not bigger.

[Blitzen]

......So saying I'm a music student would get you a little more irate then?

Nope.....good luck too you.
Whining i should pay for it does though!

I REALLY cant see the issue students have.

If you dont want to work full time then fair enough.
If you want to get a degree (whether its worthwhile or not only you can decide).

But it ridiculous expecting someone flogging their guts out day in...day out...to subsidise you.

Considering I come from a poor background. Before going on my degree my mother hasn't worked and I was on disability/jobseekers. And I'm glad I found an oppertunity out of the rut I was in. I know what I want and I want to work hard for it, I'm worried about the hage debt I'll have in the end and whether I'll EVER pay it off. But at least I'll have a degree and some new skills behind me. Even if it is one of those "trashy degrees".

I finish this year, and might move onto a different Ba/BSc if I work hard enough. But I'd like to not have to rely on living with my sole parent.

Oh, and I'm working while studying thank you. I think Blitzen's assuming every student just lives off loans of inherited money, some of us have to earn the money to study while studying.

You are reading into this what you like rather than what you see.
You state you will have a large debt and think you may never pay it off. Well why get into this debt in the first place if you truly believe you will never earn enough to pay it.

I come from a poor background aswell....thems the breaks im afraid. Maybe im from a generation older (35 years) where i grant you, it was easier to 'make it' somewhat and learn afterwards.

Some of the problems these days unfortuantely is that over the last 10-15 years a degree has been devalued soo much by the some of the pointless courses on offer, that when you do graduate, even if its in an academic subject, you are likely too earn average instead of good money anyway.

[javalord]

Some of the problems these days unfortuantely is that over the last 10-15 years a degree has been devalued soo much by the some of the pointless courses on offer, that when you do graduate, even if its in an academic subject, you are likely too earn average instead of good money anyway.

Well that depends on the individual. If you sit on your arse all day, just about pass your exams then expect a decent job at the end of it in a saturated market (like many I've seen, do), I cant help but think you got what you deserve.

Its upto the individual to distinguish themselves from other candidates, not the degree's responsability.

[Hasnath]

perhaps there can be a list of 'proper' degrees

hmmm, i'd love to see that

[funke_munke]

i think i should be financially compensated for NOT going to uni.

who's with me!?

Possibly the best post ever! I'm in! Alert the townsfolk and bring the pitchforks!

[SiM]

i think i should be financially compensated for NOT going to uni.

who's with me!?

Don't you get JSA? or you pay less tax? There's your financial compensation

[Pyrii]

You are reading into this what you like rather than what you see.
You state you will have a large debt and think you may never pay it off. Well why get into this debt in the first place if you truly believe you will never earn enough to pay it.

I come from a poor background aswell....thems the breaks im afraid. Maybe im from a generation older (35 years) where i grant you, it was easier to 'make it' somewhat and learn afterwards.

Some of the problems these days unfortuantely is that over the last 10-15 years a degree has been devalued soo much by the some of the pointless courses on offer, that when you do graduate, even if its in an academic subject, you are likely too earn average instead of good money anyway.

So am I not ALLOWED to improve myself? I'm not allowed to learn something so I don't neccesarily have to work in what I find a mundane job. I'm going through this, and working my butt off so I can go towards a future and industry that I've always WANTED to go into.

In the past 2 weeks I've had to work nights, days and generally alot to get 2 assignments in on time, all while having a cold, and being generally ill, and also working. SO when I see comments from you that state that I'm just lazy or I shouldn't be doing it because I might be sucking up money, I feel insulted, because I'm glad for the oppertunity I have and I'm working hard because it's the only chance I'll get.

[Blitzen]

So am I not ALLOWED to improve myself? I'm not allowed to learn something so I don't neccesarily have to work in what I find a mundane job. I'm going through this, and working my butt off so I can go towards a future and industry that I've always WANTED to go into.

In the past 2 weeks I've had to work nights, days and generally alot to get 2 assignments in on time, all while having a cold, and being generally ill, and also working. SO when I see comments from you that state that I'm just lazy or I shouldn't be doing it because I might be sucking up money, I feel insulted, because I'm glad for the oppertunity I have and I'm working hard because it's the only chance I'll get.

Firstly! You are working towards this so you dont have to work in a 'mudane' job. Its the very people in the millions of other 'mudane jobs', who work BLOODY hard around the country though that you expect to subsidise you isnt it? Why should you get a financial cut of their hard work?
No-one said you aren't allowed to improve yourself. But you are only improving yourself if you can afford to pay the costs....which is bang on. If you cant afford it at the end, what exactly have you improved upon?

There you go again!

At no point did i say you were lazy. (Once again ...... seeing what you want to see to justify yourself).
Just because you go to work with a cold and do some work to help yourself, how exactly does that set you aside from the rest of the normal population. Thats what most of us HAVE to do.
I too have to do long hours, work hard, work when im ill AND look after my family.
I dont expect someone else to pay for me to do it though.....and you do just becasue you want to better yourself.

I REALLY hope you do better yourself and its good to see people getting off their jacksies and doing something...........but to imagine that you should be entitled to someone elses hard earned cash so you can is wrong.