Poor Kids

[Gr44]

understood, but difficult for any teacher to teach all sides to an argument. after all, in school in the UK, science teachers don't mention the possibility that there may be a God, and He may be the origin of the universe.......

No, but most of them probably wouldn't openly dismiss it if there was a giant statue of 'god' behind them, either. Which is what the 2 guys in that clip did.

Beyond that though, most science is fact ( Bar 'theorys' and things still being worked on ). The guys in that video look like they'd try and deny the most basic of scientific principles. But would happily believe in the bible which was probably ( in my mind ) written by some guys way back when smoking some home grown.

I wouldn't stay god _doesn't_ exist, just that I think it's unlikely and teaching it as fact is wrong.

Science, almost by definition means fact. Religion didn't tell us that we need 'oxygen' to live, we'd still be living in caves if it wasn't for science ( not sure if that would be better, mind. )

[pauldarkside]

@SiM you were right, YASvRT

there'll be no need for that silly christian nonsense.

Amen to that!

What I actually DO find awesome is how, right now, Christ is arguing on your behalf, describing how wonderful you are, how beautifully made, what amazing things He had planned for you from before your birth. The fact that He doesn't see you in terms of what you have done or said, but in terms of You. And all the while you are plunging the knife in His back. Incredible stuff.

Enough of this mumbo jumbo, I'm off to be god for a day and load up Civilization IV

I've no intention of wasting my time debating with someone who uses the cast from Imaginationland to justify their opinions.

[kasavien]

Yes.

You try claiming to be the son of God these days - you'll get locked up.

Its not so much that the average person is more rational, but that back in the time of Jesus it was more rational to accept supernatural explinations for things like the formation of the Earth, because you had no other options.

These days, you'd have to be completely and utterly loopy to not have long since thrown religion in the dustbin, seeing it for the basic attempt to explain the world around us by pre-scientific peoples that it so obviously is.

If you thought God made the Earth in the Middle Ages, you were well within your rights.

If you think God made the Earth on March 25th 2008, you are a cretin.

Ok so you're classing everyone who follows a religion as a cretin, well at least that is what is implied, please correct me if i'm wrong. That's a lot of people that you are just writing off, and why? Because they haven't had the same level of education that you have been privileged to have? Being facetious for a moment, i could classify you as a cretin because there are some things that i am more educated about than you, and similarly by that classification i'm a cretin also because there are undoubtedly things that you know more about than me.

Classification of people in such a manner is both narrow minded and insulting amongst other things, especially if you refuse to understand why people follow a religion and the way that they are bound by their beliefs and are therefore unwilling to accept any other reasoning, because it conflicts directly with what they have been taught to believe for most of their lives.

[BlackDwarf]

I couldn't watch past the 2 min mark.

That makes me so angry. And its only in america.

Go watch some Penn & Teller: Bulls**t. I enjoy seeing P&T ripping those creationists a new one.

Need to have a cup of tea to calm down now.

[fuddam]

No, but most of them probably wouldn't openly dismiss it if there was a giant statue of 'god' behind them, either. Which is what the 2 guys in that clip did.

Beyond that though, most science is fact ( Bar 'theorys' and things still being worked on ). The guys in that video look like they'd try and deny the most basic of scientific principles. But would happily believe in the bible which was probably ( in my mind ) written by some guys way back when smoking some home grown.

I wouldn't stay god _doesn't_ exist, just that I think it's unlikely and teaching it as fact is wrong.

Science, almost by definition means fact. Religion didn't tell us that we need 'oxygen' to live, we'd still be living in caves if it wasn't for science ( not sure if that would be better, mind. )

you don't need any approval from me, but would just like to commend you on your even-handedness.

[kasavien]

Just for the record that video makes me livid too, the fact that those children will not get a balanced education is a travesty, but to be honest it is no different to what is happening in too many countries around the world where education basically consists of religious teaching to the exclusion of everything else, look at any predominantly muslim country for a clear example.

[2Cold Scorpio]

Science and religion are two sides of the same coin, like it or not. If this were false, religion would have died out centuries ago.

[fuddam]

Just so He knows though, should he appear in the skies above London, proving his existence, I will of course worship him.

I doubt it. Knowing He exists does NOT imply one would worship Him. In fact, why would you? To worship Him would imply you love Him, but yet you have zero relationship with Him. worship is therefore not on your cards right now, regardless of Him appearing in the clouds right now.

Although I will require a explination from him regarding him being everywhere and seeing everything, and yet allowing his Churches to become places where children are sexually abused, whilst doing nothing.

He either approves, or is powerless to do anything.

He did something. He made you. What are you doing to stop the sexual abuse?

and no, stopping people from being christian would in no way stop the abuse.
after all, from stats, most abuse happens within the family, by people who are family / friends to the abused. You want to therefore outlaw family?

yep, I thought you hadn't thought it through.

[directhex]

out of curiosity, why's it always creationism-versus-evolution? evolution does not (nor attempt to) explain the origins of life, merely their development over time

[Stewart]

And another thingy Fuddy face, while I am at it.

We live on the Earth. The Earth is a pissant of a planet, and one of countless trillions in the universe. We orbit a pissant main sequence Sun, one of about 400 billion stars in the Milky Way alone. The Sun does not go around the Earth, and the Earth is not the center of the galaxy, the universe, or anything else.

The Milky Way is a pissant galaxy, one of more than 100 billion in the observable universe.

Our galaxy is part of the local group, which is part of the Virgo Supercluster. This supercluster is about 200 million light years long, which makes is a pissant of a supercluster compared to the billions of light years which make up the observable universe.

Now, given the complete and total unimportance of the tiny speck of rock we live on, what makes you think that even if there is a God, a creator of the universe, that it will be any of the Gods we made up, and now worship on our little planet?

If there is a God or Creator, it is unlikely to be Odin, or Zeus, or the Christian God.

Chances of there being a God, AND its the Christian God who you worship, AND the story of creation as told in the Bible being true... slim mate.

Very slim.

[TheAnimus]

Science and religion are two sides of the same coin, like it or not. If this were false, religion would have died out centuries ago.

But by that logic, so would anything that was false? Think of all the false hoods we take for granted today, Alexander Graham Bell inventing the telephone for instance.

People belive what they are brought upto, this is why there are generations of chinease people who think tibet belongs to them.

and no, stopping people from being christian would in no way stop the abuse.
after all, from stats, most abuse happens within the family, by people who are family / friends to the abused. You want to therefore outlaw family?

yep, I thought you hadn't thought it through.

I think the suggestion was that because the church considered itself to be above the law, in hiding, conceiling, and so forth, that they should be outlawed. Taring them all with the same brush.

However he does have a point, whilst most abuse happens in the family, what happens if you look at the chance of been abused? For instance familys care for more children than the church, what are the odds of been molested in each.

"I thought you hadn't thought it through."

[fuddam]

I think the suggestion was that because the church considered itself to be above the law, in hiding, conceiling, and so forth, that they should be outlawed. Taring them all with the same brush.

of course it's bollocks that any church should try to be above the law.

However he does have a point, whilst most abuse happens in the family, what happens if you look at the chance of been abused? For instance familys care for more children than the church, what are the odds of been molested in each.

"I thought you hadn't thought it through."

One couldn't simply compare numbers of families with abuse vs churches, since it's apples vs oranges.
I'd venture one would have to compare individuals in families vs individuals in churches. There has to be some common ground in the equation.

Also, one could bring in other social groups where one has to get clearance to work with children: scouts/cubs groups, social clubs, schools, etc.

the problem is people simply say churches = abuse, which is bollocks.

[fuddam]

Now, given the complete and total unimportance of the tiny speck of rock we live on, what makes you think that even if there is a God, a creator of the universe, that it will be any of the Gods we made up, and now worship on our little planet?

If there is a God or Creator, it is unlikely to be Odin, or Zeus, or the Christian God.

Chances of there being a God, AND its the Christian God who you worship, AND the story of creation as told in the Bible being true... slim mate.

Very slim.

I like the figures.
Well, it makes sense within the following concept: God is love. As such, He loves us. And the end goal is a UNIVERSE singing its praises to a loving Creator, not simply this earth. That is what the Bible is on about, ultimately. And the earth is simply where it starts. If He already has other sentient beings on other planets, no problemo - the more the merrier.

[Gr44]

Problem is though the church has/had? a reputation to uphold. Small numbers of employees who work in the churches are causing a huge out-cry and have led to a general conern for the safety of children in churches, full stop.

That won't go away over night. To be honest, if I had a kid and wanted to take them, or if they wanted to go to church. I would be more protective now than I would have been 10 years ago.

I don't think it is far though, as already pointed actually believe that all churches = abuse. Plently of other places kids get abused, but as I said... the church is the last place you would have expected such things to happen. It's conerning the number of 'good faithful' priests and such who have actually invovled and does raise some questions about who gets into power in churches, though.

[fuddam]

Problem is though the church has/had? a reputation to uphold. Small numbers of employees who work in the churches are causing a huge out-cry and have led to a general conern for the safety of children in churches, full stop.

That won't go away over night. To be honest, if I had a kid and wanted to take them, or if they wanted to go to church. I would be more protective now than I would have been 10 years ago.

I don't think it is far though, as already pointed actually believe that all churches = abuse. Plently of other places kids get abused, but as I said... the church is the last place you would have expected such things to happen. It's conerning the number of 'good faithful' priests and such who have actually invovled and does raise some questions about who gets into power in churches, though.

totally agreed. on all counts.

[TheAnimus]

One couldn't simply compare numbers of families with abuse vs churches, since it's apples vs oranges.
I'd venture one would have to compare individuals in families vs individuals in churches. There has to be some common ground in the equation.

Also, one could bring in other social groups where one has to get clearance to work with children: scouts/cubs groups, social clubs, schools, etc.

the problem is people simply say churches = abuse, which is bollocks.

No, its very simple to compare, very simple indeed.

Say that there where 20,000 children in care in families, and 10 where abused. Any child, chosen at random, would have a one in 2,000 chance of been abused. Then say that there where 1,000 children in churches, of which 5 where abused, a one in 400 chance.

This is ludicrusly simple stats (and i'll be very embrassed if i've made a mistake). So yes, you can compare apples and oranges, with great ease it would seam. The same way one could say oranges are a better source of vitamin C, in this case, one is more likely to abuse you.

I like the figures.
Well, it makes sense within the following concept: God is love. As such, He loves us. And the end goal is a UNIVERSE singing its praises to a loving Creator, not simply this earth. That is what the Bible is on about, ultimately. And the earth is simply where it starts. If He already has other sentient beings on other planets, no problemo - the more the merrier.

Does it have to start at Earth? Odds are from my understanding it didn't, you don't worship the concept of Jesus as a human do you now? Surely its farther son and the holy ghost. None of which are bound to earth.

But even with my 'devils advocate' interpretation (to try and prove that christanity might not be flawed by our understanding of space, earth revolving round sun etc) it does little to diswade the notion that odds are, its not going to be the correct one (if only one exists).