Poor Kids

[DDY]

On the other hand though, to say science is all about fact like you did is also wrong.
Science is prodominently based around theory. Theory is something that isnt proved to be fact 100%.

True but you don't teach kids a theory like mass energy equivalence, something basic like KS3 science, simple things, theories with a lot of explanation and evidence. You can question science, that's the beauty of a theory, if it's wrong then you can find another one. You can't do that with religions, otherwise you'd go to hell for doing so.

[sammyc]

Science is all about the facts and the evidence, religion is the total opposite. A scientist cant teach someone about how the earth goes around the sun but a religious man would say how god moves the sun around the earth.

Children cannot be trusted to make their own minds up about anything, for one I believed Santa Claus existed when I was 4. The word of god is worse, religion puts fear into children when they are at their most vulnerable into believing and practicing something which they otherwise wouldn't because of their someones insecurities (usually the parents). ...

Agree entirely. Children are so impressionable that it's very difficult to de-brief everything you've been taught up to a certain age and then start again to make your own mind up. When anyone talks about having a specific faith they generally do mean that of their parents/specific background; had they been brought up differently, they would be unlikely to have spontaneously opted for a totally different set of beliefs. In which case, it seems fair to assume that most people haven't questioned their own faith too far. That's my basic issue with religious teaching. The question of science vs religion aside, at least you are generally not being taught lots of different versions of science at school. Children would be better off being given a wide range of knowledge about various faiths imo, not having one foisted on them, or being pressured by adults who don't want them forming their own ideas. All you should be getting as a child is information, neither camp should be actually pushing their views onto you, be it creationism/evolution or any other issue.

[htid]

Does any of this arguing which is right really matter?

We've done this topic here on Hexus many times, each time pretty much the same arguments are brought up and (within reason) nothing either party can say will convince the other party to change how they think, so basically it's just a constant argument which nobody will ever win.

Aren't there better things to do on the internet?

[Stewart]

I just think if someone says 'a big man in the sky with magic powers made everything' then the burden of proof is on them.

If I claim the moon is made of cheese, or marshmellow, or gay, then it is down to me to show why this is, not down to the 'normal' people to prove its rock.

[MadduckUK]

Aren't there better things to do on the internet?

yes, but cant do it at work

i mean games of course

[Gr44]

I just think if someone says 'a big man in the sky with magic powers made everything' then the burden of proof is on them.

If I claim the moon is made of cheese, or marshmellow, or gay, then it is down to me to show why this is, not down to the 'normal' people to prove its rock.

Those are my thoughts too.

But for the sake of keeping things civil we need to respect that some people do, for some unknown reason to me, believe that some magical 'dude' floats around out there clicking his fingers and making stuff out of thin... whatever it is he started with.

Besides which, I never like to rule things out 100%. Maybe there is a god clicking things and making stuff happen. Maybe our whole universe is a child making an experiment in a classroom and our entire existance is a mere 20minutes for him.

Who knows!

[Stewart]

Yes.

But maybe there is no magic, no ghosts, no goblins, no gods, no way of talking to the dead, no heaven, no hell, etc, etc.

For example, this idea of respecting other peoples views... so if Fuddam or someone else comes along, convinced that he talks to ghosts every second tuesday, or that goblins live at the bottom of his garden, we have to treat these claims as if they *might* be true?

'ZOMG i seened a ghost a it was a headless horseman!!1!'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG i maded a quija bored and a goblin apeareded in the corner of the room'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG theres a man in the sky and he doeses magic and he maded me and you and all the ants!!1'

Yes mate, I respect your views.

Why the special treatment for delusions just because you have the R word? Religion can make any nonsense claim respectable just because its a religion?

[Koolpc]

Well, i for one believe in god. What is the point of life without a meaningful end? We just live and then die? I hope not!! I want to see my dear mum, dad and brother again! They passed away and i believe they are in spirit, another dimension i suppose.

Why does everything have to be scientifically proven? Whats wrong with Faith?

There are lots of things in life that cannot be explained 'Scientifically'.

I love my faith in god etc. Gives meaning to life etc. No need to keep having a go at those who have a belief.

I agree that the Bible is almost certainly not 100% true! Did anyone seen the programme on the disciples the other night? Makes you think!!

Anyway, the extremist religions out there are anothing thing mind you!

[Koolpc]

Yes.

But maybe there is no magic, no ghosts, no goblins, no gods, no way of talking to the dead, no heaven, no hell, etc, etc.

For example, this idea of respecting other peoples views... so if Fuddam or someone else comes along, convinced that he talks to ghosts every second tuesday, or that goblins live at the bottom of his garden, we have to treat these claims as if they *might* be true?

'ZOMG i seened a ghost a it was a headless horseman!!1!'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG i maded a quija bored and a goblin apeareded in the corner of the room'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG theres a man in the sky and he doeses magic and he maded me and you and all the ants!!1'

Yes mate, I respect your views.

Why the special treatment for delusions just because you have the R word? Religion can make any nonsense claim respectable just because its a religion?

You don't half talk a load of rubbish at times!!

[MadduckUK]

'ZOMG theres a man in the sky and he doeses magic!!1'

[kasavien]

You don't have to respect his views, you have to respect that he is allowed to hold those views, there's a big difference

[Stewart]

Well, i for one believe in god. What is the point of life without a meaningful end?

The 'point' is to reproduce. And to live a good life. The same 'point' life has for snails, and dolphins, and pigs. See, although you like to dress things up with Gods and a higher purpose, you iz flesh and blood the same as an ostrich is flesh and blood. So we all play the same game mate, with the same rules.

We humans get to appriciate our lot a bit more, but regardless you are an animal, you came from the Earth, you will live, die and go back to the Earth, as will every living thing.

That isn't enough of a miracle for you, you think thats mundane, and need to invent Gods to spice things up?

We just live and then die? I hope not!! I want to see my dear mum, dad and brother again! They passed away and i believe they are in spirit, another dimension i suppose.

I hope you do mate, but you are kidding yourself, and confusing hope and wants with what is simply more likely to be true. Fear of death is a great reason to become a Christian. Its certainly up there as the main reason why Christianity refuses to die... because its followers refuse to believe they will.

Why does everything have to be scientifically proven? Whats wrong with Faith?

The species will not advance by having faith in things that are almost certainly not true. Science will advance us. If your mother or father or brother were ill before they passed away, I think modern science, in the shape of medical treatment was the best hope, not faith.

People live longer these days because of science, not faith.

Science will cure AIDS. Not faith.

There are lots of things in life that cannot be explained 'Scientifically'.

This in no way points to the existence of God.

I love my faith in god etc. Gives meaning to life etc. No need to keep having a go at those who have a belief.

But do you at least question it? Whats the point of having a belief system if it doesn't stand up to questioning, and it unlikely to be more than a few nice stories?

Faith is ignorance made a virtue.

[Stewart]

You don't half talk a load of rubbish at times!!

You obviously are competely unable to explain why delusions that involve Gods should have any more respect than those about ghosts, spirits and such.

You believe in a big man in the sky, and then tell me I talk rubbish sometimes.

Thats like... funny.

Oh, and Happy Easter.

[G4Z]

Why have we got all these members complaining about this thread?

If you don't like it, how about don't read it?

If I posted a complaint every time there was a 'I am bored and have no idea how to entertain myself' Id have a post count of 10,000 by now. I don't because it doesn't interest me much.

I might make a useful contribution to this thread shortly (beats working...)

[kasavien]

I agree with stewart, as a christian the ultimate goal and point of living was to go to heaven when i died, hoping that living a christian life according to the teachings of the religion would get me in. For a while after deciding christianity was unfounded in anything, i couldn't see much point in being alive and to be honest i wouldn't have cared if i died in an instant.

But i have come to realise that the point of living, and there is a point, is to experience life as much as possible, do as much as you can, help people where you can. Humanities ultimate aim as a collective should be to better itself so that future generations can reap the benefits, what makes me sad is that i won't be around to see what those benefits will be but i will be happy in the knowledge that i have made my small contribution to progressing towards them.

[iranu]

out of curiosity, why's it always creationism-versus-evolution? evolution does not (nor attempt to) explain the origins of life, merely their development over time

This is another thing that YEC (young earth creationists) get confused over. People will see allsorts of arguments that will mix up evolution with Abiogenesis (science of the origin of life), big bang theory (cosmology), information theory and thermodynamics. And this is what annoys me. Whilst I cannot claim to understand all of these aspects totally along with such things as radiometric dating, palaeontology, oceanography, etc, etc I can understand that they are all concerned with different aspects of the world and each one of them supports the other in relation to the theory of evolution. It's not something that is standalone, separate from the other theories in Biology.

The same scientific method is used by the different branches to explain the world, it just so happens that this particular theory, which is about as rock solid as they come, conflicts with YEC ideas because it contradicts their interpretation of the bible. If that is the case then what they are actually doing is saying that the scientific method does not work. The irony of the people in the video is that they disregard scientists as liars and frauds yet are quite happy to benefit from the progress that science gives them. I bet they drove to the museum, I bet they have clean water and sanitation, I bet they wear man-made fibres, I bet they had a burger, chips and cola afterwards, I bet they watch TV and use air-conditioning, I bet they fly somewhere on holiday, etc, etc.

Why aren't they as much in arms about gravitational theory as they are evolution? It's monumental hypocrisy. If they have other theories then have them peer reviewed and tested just like everyone else.