oh thats really convenient isnt it?Originally Posted by Koolpc
You will soon find out when you pop your clogs!!Its all about FAITH
hey how can i get power and wealth easy.. hmm i know why dont i invent a faith where the poor saps only get a "payoff" when there dead and cant tell anyone else it was all bollocks
have to say, whoever came up with it was a genius. its the perfect crime
your religion is the perfect crime
Vodka
Well, each to thier own i say. I don't tell people to believe in god. I am just expressing my opinions.
"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion." -- Lafayette Ron Hubbard, founder of Church of Scientologyoh thats really convenient isnt it?
hey how can i get power and wealth easy.. hmm i know why dont i invent a faith where the poor saps only get a "payoff" when there dead and cant tell anyone else it was all bollocks
have to say, whoever came up with it was a genius. its the perfect crime
your religion is the perfect crime
Whilst it is tiresome, frustrating and annoying to have to put out the same arguments refuting the logical fallacies that get made in such threads could we at least try to keep it civil. Everyone posting in this thread has posted their arguments with regard to their beliefs many times over on other threads in the past and there is really no need to duplicate them.
I'm much more interested in what people think about the video and the "education" of children in that video. For example Ken Miller is a Catholic iirc and spends plenty of time explaining evolution and defending it against creationist attack so this is not necessarily a science verses religion topic. Evolution is compatible with a lot of Christians and their beliefs.
So what do people think of the video and why? Bear in mind that the parents have paid for this tour, it's not a school outing.
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
KoolPC,
I assume by what you've said you believe in both science AND god, yes?
Humans reproducing is what we're programmed to do, Stewart is right. Same for any living entity, our top prioity is self presivation ( sp? ) which entails reproduction.
Do you honestly believe, when you die, when your brain that contains all you know is long gone - you will be magic'd up to the heavens to meet all your old friends? It sounds great, but is that _really_ what you think will happen? Or just something you'd like to happen?
The whole point of science is to proof the unexplainable. As a species we're explaining new things every day, I'll admit I'm not much help to the effort but we have some amazing minds that are always advancing science. I doubt we'll ever explain _everything_ but I'm sure many things you think may have had gods touch will infact be proven otherwise in the next century.
God will never prove, without doubt, that Science is 'wrong' - unless he appears one day and speaks to us and without questions is 100% who he says ( which science probably will never prove, ironically ). Science how ever, probably will, one day - come to the conclusion that God does not exist.
I envy people like you in all honestly, life most be more simple if you believe God will always watch your back!
I think the guys on the video are teaching the wrong things. I cannot see why Science and god cannot go hand in hand? Why not believe in god and in what science tells us about the world?
The proof is there that the world is Billions of years old. I for one, as stated earlier, believe that the Bible is one big story book. Doesn't stop me from believing in 'God'. Man wrote the bible, not god. Some parts of the bible may very well be accurate. Others are not.
Very interesting video though. These people could only come from America!!
Well, Iranu I will give my opinion on that although I suspect you already know it.
Its yet another example of religious types brainwashing their children, its disgusting to watch and the guys refutation of the science he is standing in front of is laughable and only believable by the primed kids he is 'teaching'.
I think I would like to see some people of sound mind take some kids for a tour around the creation museum and rip it to shreds.
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
Sometimes religious people say they know God to exist. I do not believe anyone can know this.
But then again, sometimes scientists make similar claims to the contrary, or make assertions in areas such as evolution.
Me, I'll take the theory supported by the most compelling evidence. Evidence is not proof however, so ultimately I know nothing.
And unlike a lot of people, I'm actually OK with that. I don't need to know the answer to have purpose.
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greetings, squire
God is love?
1) he gave his son to die for our sins
2) he doesn't require anything from us other than our love, in order to be with him
3) the love he constantly shows me/my family/my friends
4) the love EXPERIENCED - there's no way to argue against that, sorry
creating a utopia? well, see below, seeing as it's related to your subsequent question:
it does, IF you consider that the reason for creation is relationship. It's all about relationship. If you made the hamsters and made them love you, what kind of relationship would that be? Would you appreciate it? I know a lotta peeps make endless 3D virtual girlfriends in 3D apps, with perfect proportions to their taste, but somehow I'm sure they find them somewhat....lackingSo the end goal is the universe to sing gods praises according to you, yeah? Care to explain how this magnificent superbeing couldn't just create a universe where all the lifeforms in it had it hardwired to do this worship singing lark? You know, its a bit like if I wanted to create a universe of dancing hamsters wouldn't I just create that from the get go instead of starting out with a mish mash of lifeforms, some with free will, some instinct driven and hope that it organises itself into a team of dancing hamsters? It just makes no sense.
likewise, if you could MAKE your perfect partner love you, would you want that? i.e. you could flick a switch / use some voodoo love doll, and he/she would love you instantly and forevermore, would that be as good as if he/she CHOSE to love you?
there you have it. God is not and has never been lonely. He was in perfect relationship in his trinity before he made us/everything, but for reasons that are only given as love, he chose to make us, to love him. And we have to be able to choose otherwise.
and as far as the misery goes, there are a few further considerations:
1) this life is not the beginning and end of existence. If it were, your point would hold water, but seeing as this life is simply the place to make a choice, and that eternity is to be perfect /without pain / without suffering, it doesn't.
2) the place of 'not God' is imperfect. And to choose 'not God' there has to be room for that place to exist.
3) ironically, it is in suffering that we can get closer to God. I do not LIKE suffering, but it is the lot of a Christian to suffer, as Christ suffered. Not in a masochistic sense, of course, but in servitude. Also, it is only ***temporary***.
also, remember that while God is all-loving, but God must also be all-just.
'Science can't prove everything!'
Kooly:
Just tell me, in plain English, what has science not being able to explain everything got to do with God?
If you were around, say, 3000 years ago, could you or I explain what that giant, flaming disc in the sky was, that makes it day when its in the sky, and night when its not? No.
So, because 'we', science, whatever coulnd't explain it, does that make it supernatural? No. Its a big ball of gas and plasma in the sky. This is true if you think its a God, this is true if you think its a big ball of gas and plasma in the sky.
For some reason you confuse science not knowing all with some sort of feather in your cap when arguing for the existence of God. I have no idea why.
What is your argument?
Current scientific methods do not know the exact 'ins and outs' of dark matter, therefore - omfg God lives in the sky!!1
I don't understand why you keep saying science can't explain this or that, as if that in some way makes your position more likely to be correct.
The only other thing I'd add is you seem to think the burden of proof is on non-believers. Like its not up to you to prove miracles do happen, but its up to me to prove they don't, for some bizare reason.
Its these things, as well as the fact you are little more than an ignorant 'Christian', with an infantile belief system, based entirely on what you want to be true, rather than what is actually likely to be true, that makes me want to punch you, in a friendly on-the-internet way of course.
You make me do this. I love you. I don't want to hit you, but you make me. You make me hit you because I love you.
Now make my dinner.
Squadron Leader Iranu: Bandits at 3 o'clock, 8 angels.
Wingman God: Roger, I've got your six.
Squadron Leader Iranu: Tally ho!
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
Gr44 (25-03-2008)
I'm howling with laughter in the office over that one. Super
I think people only complain about others religious beliefs when they get in the way of their own (or absance of their own).
But that said, the same respect has to be given to the flying speghetti monster followers as it does to catholecisim.
So, say anything against teh FSM or draw any derogatory cartoons, we will bomb you, enough said?
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SKEPTIC: "How can you Christians believe the book of Genesis to be true? All you are relying on is blind faith."
CHRISTIAN: "So, you're saying believing in something by faith alone is wrong?"
SKEPTIC: "Yes. Science has proven that stuff to be nonsense."
CHRISTIAN: "Oh really? How has science proved that?"
SKEPTIC: "Well, evolution proves it. Scientists have shown evolution to be true."
CHRISTIAN: "Scientists have shown evolution to be true? Just exactly which scientists? Exactly how have they proven evolution true?"
SKEPTIC: "All the scientists! Everyone knows that."
CHRISTIAN: "Well, there are great differences in evolutionary theory in the scientific community. Can you tell me just which version you mean? Tell me which studies you're referring to so I can look at them and address those issues."
SKEPTIC: "I don't know which studies. All I know is that they proved it!"
CHRISTIAN: "Actually, it doesn't sound like you do know. You can't tell me which scientists to which you're referring, you can't tell me which study and you can't tell me how it was proven true. Just where did you get this information?"
SKEPTIC: "It's common knowledge. You hear it all the time."
CHRISTIAN: "Just because you hear something a lot doesn't make it true. At Christmas I hear about Santa all the time, too. That doesn't make him real. What you're asking me to do is believe in evolution without providing me any evidence for doing so. I'm sorry, but I can't do that. I can't just accept what you say as true just because you say it. That would mean I would have to believe it by faith alone, and you just said that was wrong."
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